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By ColeyS1
#813271
Sgian Dubh wrote:
A job that's ideal for a spray gun. Mask off the bits you want natural ensuring the edge or corner where the break is to occur is masked off with masking tape firmly pressed down.

Mix some spirit dye with lacquer thinner, or alcohol, and fill your spray gun. Choke down the air pressure a bit and mist the dye on. Don't get the surface too wet so that the dye flashes off quickly-- this prevents the colour bleeding under the edge of the masking tape. Keep building up the colour until you get the result you want. After that you can remove the masking and apply your clear coats. The finish on the front of this cabinet was achieved using a similar technique to what I've just described. Slainte.

Image

You make that sound so simple ! Cabinet looks fantastic by the way ;)
I've only ever brushed or ragged on the stain cause I've been too scared to spray it. What ratio thinners to stain would you say you mix ?

Coley

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By Sgian Dubh
#813272
I just tend to sloppily do the proportions, but I think they're usually something 25% to 35% dye and the rest is lacquer thinner (aka cellulose thinners). I use this solvent in preference to alcohol because it flashes off quicker.

Incidentally, the tambour in that cabinet is dyed rather than stained, and there's a description of the colouring up procedure along with, for this thread anyway, extraneous discussion of tambour manufacture at this link. Slainte.
By Woodfinish Man
#814198
ColeyS1 once your confident enough to spray then using a tinted Precatalysed or harder wearing Acid Catalyst lacquer is the way to go. These lacquers can be matched to Farrow & Ball, Dulux, BS, RAL, Pantone shades (naming just a few) and are far more durable, cost effective and easier to spray than paint.

Hope this is of assistance.
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By RogerS
#814215
Woodfinish Man wrote:ColeyS1 once your confident enough to spray then using a tinted Precatalysed or harder wearing Acid Catalyst lacquer is the way to go. These lacquers can be matched to Farrow & Ball, Dulux, BS, RAL, Pantone shades (naming just a few) and are far more durable, cost effective and easier to spray than paint.

Hope this is of assistance.


I agree but for many of us the luxury of a dedicated spraying area/spray booth is just that... a luxury.
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By ColeyS1
#814234
Woodfinish Man wrote:ColeyS1 once your confident enough to spray then using a tinted Precatalysed or harder wearing Acid Catalyst lacquer is the way to go. These lacquers can be matched to Farrow & Ball, Dulux, BS, RAL, Pantone shades (naming just a few) and are far more durable, cost effective and easier to spray than paint.

Hope this is of assistance.


That's good to know, my concern still remains with the customer asking for a matching piece of furniture 3 years down the line. Is the scanning and mixing technology there to be able to order 'the same' but years apart?
An example was I took a glossy lego head into b and q to be colour matched. Just before the guy was about to start mixing he got me to take a quick look at the screen. Compared to what I was after it looked orange :shock: Another chap who had heard what had happened, came over when I was looking at a colour chart instead. He reckoned he struggled getting them to match stuff and went to Brewers instead. This is all a bit he said she said but went on to explain that b and q's machine uses some kind of red laser beam to scan the surface, meaning on anything shiny the colour often had a red tinge :? I can't see why the guy would have had any reason to lie, and it certainly explained the scanning yellow but ending up with orange situation.

Fifth and final coat of paint last night - moved it earlier out the way, now got nice finger marks to touch up. I'll never use the paint ever again as much as I like the colours. I bought some 'little greene paint' in error a while ago so will be experimenting with that to see how easy it is to apply, denib and most importantly ruddy dry and be durable. I'll have a load of freestanding furniture to make myself very soon for myself so would like to find some heritagey colours that actually perform as they should.

Cheers
Coley

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Last edited by ColeyS1 on 08 Nov 2013, 13:33, edited 2 times in total.
By Woodfinish Man
#814252
That's good to know, my concern still remains with the customer asking for a matching piece of furniture 3 years down the line. Is the scanning and mixing technology there to be able to order 'the same' but years apart?


Well there may be a very slight difference but it will be negligible. In my opinion there's no doubt you should be trying tinted lacquers instead of paints....the difference in durability is significant. Light Green Paint company is another range that can be made in these lacquers!
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By ColeyS1
#814268
At the risk of sounding thick .....:) whats a tinted lacquer ? What would be the full process to finish mdf or tulip wood for example ?

I've just gone into homebase and picked up these Image
Every single dulux colour chart they had on the shelf :D I was pointed to the relevant aisle and the shop assistant came back with his other workmate to help me pick them all from the shelf - A++ to them for being super helpful whilst I continued to slag off farrow and ball which they also sell :roll: The plan is to just compare it to the likes of f&b, crown, laura Ashley etc.
Workshops out of bounds for the weekend as any dust will settle and stick to the surface. Will be glad when they get delivered Monday !

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By Woodfinish Man
#814275
A tinted lacquer is basically a hard paint, especially so if a two pack Acid Catalyst Lacquer is used. These products are very popular amongst the shopfitting and furniture manufacturing sector as they are very durable, easy to apply (by spray) and come in a range of different sheen levels.

The basic application onto MDF would be:

One sprayed application of PC1 White MDF Primer followed by one or two coats of Precatalysed Promatch (can be tinted to over 20,000 shades!). Each coat is touch dry after 20 mins and recoating can take place after 60 minutes.

The AC system is applied in a similar way except that it comes with a catalyst where there is a 9:1 mix ratio with the lacquer. AC2 in particular meets BS 6250 severe use specification.
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By ColeyS1
#814290
The thing with this job, was the customer quite liked seeing subtle brush strokes as all the window shutters were hand painted.
I just nipped into Brewers and was very unimpressed to say the least. I was gonna bite the bullet and get the same F&B raddichio mixed in a paint they'd recommend -
"We can't do that, its their colour" what he did say was he could mix it to the nearest dulux colour.
So this seems like the only readily available option ?

Am I really limited to just the dulux colours found on the charts. Does the scanner just point to the closet dulux one available, is there no way that another manufacturers paint can be replicated exactly ? He also showed a farrow and ball paint sample of the same colour I've been using. It looks nothing like the finish I could get so wonder if they have dramatically altered the formula since the sample board was made.

Im gonna stick to veneered mdf or solid wood things from now on :D

Coley


-secretly going to b and q to see what the dulux raddichio turns out like :evil:

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By Drudgeon
#814603
The Farrow & Ball colours are in a different league, and (in my experience) cannot be matched from Dulux, I know that Leyland, and also Morrells have the F&B colours programmed into their mixers to re-produce the colours, but they are never 100% the same, I have one more than one occasion witnessed an interior designer walk into a job and instantly recognise items that have been "matched" to F&B rather than using the actual paint.

I preersonally cannot get on with the new water based eggshell, I have done two projects in the last month finished by hand with F&B Estate Eggshell, one was undercoated with Morrells 2k and one with Morrells WB primer, neither would dry properly, no matter the environment/temps. :?
By scholar
#814930
To be fair to F&B, they are quite explicit in their instructions that F&B Estate Eggshell must be applied to a base of the requisite F&B primer - I have no idea why this makes such a difference as I am not a chemist, but evidently it does.

Having read a lot of the complaints, as far as I can tell, they all report the experience of applying F&B Estate eggshell to a third party primer/undercoat - it is an understandable concern for professionals who need to be able to get their topcoat(s) on without delay, and having to apply another primer is extra work and time. I have not had problems when following the instructions - usually a base coat of Zinsser BIN or 1-2-3 followed by the F&B primer/undercoat, followed by the topcoat(s). Seems to work fine, whether hand painted or sprayed. The Zinsser primer would not be necessary for some things, but it does cover and fill very well.

I too find that colour matched paint (I use Morells who are good) does not come out quite the same - they will look the same side by side, but the overall effect is different - F&B would I think say that it is due to the quantity of pigment in their paints which gives them a depth of colour that is not so easily matched - again, I am no expert, but the consensus is that the real thing is easily distinguishable from a colour matched alternative. Some shades seem to match better than others.

Of course F&B are not the only mfr of nice paint Little Greene is a good alternative, just different colours; it does not seem to have the primer incompatibility of the F&B, again, don't know why..

Cheers
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By RogerS
#814936
You still get problems applying it over their primer. I had some Douglas Fir (why does anyone use this wood. It is ghastly stuff to use. Only got it as it was cheap at auction and I'd not used it before. Never again). I digress. My fault originally. Applied F&B external primer and got bleed through from the DF. Reading their leaflet that primer is not suitable for oily woods like DF. Recommended solution was to wire wool it all off which i did. Then apply their stain block. Then re-apply their primer undercoat...two coats IIRC followed by the top coat of eggshell. Still got bleed through.

Zinser BIN'd it. Job done. Will never use F&B again.
By mind_the_goat
#814941
There's a lot more to the appearance of a finish than just the mix of pigment. Think of car paint that can have any number of other products added to give a different result, It's the additional fillers that can give paint it's 'trade mark' appearance by scattering the light in different ways and no colour match machine will work that out. It will be the effect of the fillers on the colour perceived by the eye that results in the 'wrong' colour mix when people try to match a certain finish. Eyes don't perceive absolute colour and machines have difficulty matching what we see. Even 2 samples that look the same under one light source may look completely different under another.
By blackrodd
#814965
I don't know if this is any use but a company near me who use pine and come from Exmoor advertise their finish as i coat of F&B eggshell oil and two coats of clear to finish, sprayed i should imagine.
Regards Rodders