UKWorkshop Woodworking Forums




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2017, 09:04 
Offline
Settled in Member

Joined: 26 Apr 2017, 16:38
Posts: 430
Location: Cardiff
Has thanked: 27 times
Been thanked: 15 times
This is the table I'm working on at the moment:
Attachment:
_MG_6585.jpg
_MG_6585.jpg [ 102.49 KiB | Viewed 289 times ]

And this is the substructure:
Attachment:
_MG_6588.jpg
_MG_6588.jpg [ 118.39 KiB | Viewed 289 times ]

The top is maple (20mm thick), the legs etc sweet chestnut.

The table spans the two cross members which are 54 cm apart, as do the two side pieces along the length. My question is, can I expect the top and/ or the length pieces sag with time? ie, do you think I need to build in further support before I start applying finish and assembling?

Thanks for any advice,

Chris


Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Digg
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2017, 09:31 
Offline
Regular Contributor

Joined: 14 May 2008, 15:21
Posts: 1642
Location: N.E.Lincs
Has thanked: 92 times
Been thanked: 145 times
Looks to me like racking could be more of an issue.

_________________
These are my principles,if you don't like them ,i have others.


Steve.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2017, 09:43 
Offline
Settled in Member

Joined: 26 Apr 2017, 16:38
Posts: 430
Location: Cardiff
Has thanked: 27 times
Been thanked: 15 times
Thanks Steve. I'd wondered about putting in a further set of supports further down the legs but like the design as it is so not sure. It's a side table (I think) so for putting in one place and leaving alone. Something to put a pair of gloves on. :roll: Each corner has 3 doweled joints so they should be strongish, but on the other hand I could do further supports would work well enough. Hmmm...


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2017, 09:48 
Offline
Regular Contributor

Joined: 14 May 2008, 15:21
Posts: 1642
Location: N.E.Lincs
Has thanked: 92 times
Been thanked: 145 times
I'm no expert on furniture, so someone with more experience may come along and give you some reassurance. I'm looking at it as someone who has built a lot of big timber structures and it just doesn't look that stable in it's current form. If it is just an occasional table, it may be perfectly fine. I do like it though, it's different.

_________________
These are my principles,if you don't like them ,i have others.


Steve.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2017, 10:22 
Offline
Valued Contributor

Joined: 24 Aug 2008, 18:31
Posts: 3378
Location: Essex
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 81 times
If the second photo is how it is actually going to be, then it needs some help to retain any sort of structural strength. If, however, those members are going to come together with some proper joints, then that will be less of an issue, although even then the horizontals are a bit skinny to resist much racking (the tendency to parallelogram if some leans against or bumps into the table).

It would certainly want some support across the grain, currently lacking. You appear to have only longitudinal support at the moment, which it doesn't need anywhere near as much as support across the grain. As mocked up, if someone were to sit in the middle of the table it would put the glue joints of the table top under great strain.

_________________
Slope Immune

How to build a shed properly: here


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2017, 14:06 
Offline
Settled in Member

Joined: 26 Apr 2017, 16:38
Posts: 430
Location: Cardiff
Has thanked: 27 times
Been thanked: 15 times
Thanks again Steve.

Mike - I don't fully understand, with apologies. The table top is supported across its width as it will be attached to the cross members.
Attachment:
_MG_6593.jpg
_MG_6593.jpg [ 91.01 KiB | Viewed 227 times ]

Do you mean it'd need another support as here?
Attachment:
_MG_6598.jpg
_MG_6598.jpg [ 112.24 KiB | Viewed 227 times ]

Also, you mentioned proper joints - are dowel joints seen as inferior? I did read around this and thought they were strong joints, but happy to be corrected - and I do understand the real issue here is mechanics, not the strength of the joint.
Thanks, C


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2017, 14:49 
Offline
Valued Contributor

Joined: 24 Aug 2008, 18:31
Posts: 3378
Location: Essex
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 81 times
The boards of the top run from left to right in the top photos (the first ones you posted), don't they? The rail below them isn't hard up underneath the top, if your mock-up is anything to go by. In other words, the top is supported along its length, and not across its width. This is a serious weakness, unless I am entirely misunderstanding what you are proposing.

If that lot is to be doweled then it will fail the minute it has someone bump into it or lean on it clumsily. You will need to introduce either some additional rails at lower level, or radically thicken up the top rails. I stress, this isn't to resist load applied to the top of the table but to cope with a horizontal impact. The design is fundamentally weak.

_________________
Slope Immune

How to build a shed properly: here


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2017, 15:49 
Offline
A Regular Member

Joined: 27 Jun 2013, 16:10
Posts: 1231
Location: Near Oxford
Has thanked: 165 times
Been thanked: 102 times
Chris,
As MikeG says, you really need to deepen the top rails preferably to around 50mm, and form a stronger joint to the legs to make the piece rigid. Unfortunately this will need the legs to be a larger cross section, 40 x 40mm would do.
Hope that helps.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2017, 16:26 
Offline
Settled in Member

Joined: 26 Apr 2017, 16:38
Posts: 430
Location: Cardiff
Has thanked: 27 times
Been thanked: 15 times
Thanks for the replies both.

I had no illusion that it was a strong structure and wanted to strip the design back as far as possible in favour of aesthetics. Don't some people have side tables just for putting a vase of flowers on?! In which case, when is a table strong enough? I'm asking that not as a challenge to the advice I've received which is no doubt right, but it is an interesting question. Some people have homes with rooms big enough to situate a table for more-or-less purely aesthetic reasons (and where nobody is likely to exert stronger forces on them) I'd have thought? I weigh 14 stone and can lean heavily on the base as it is and try to shove it side to side, and there isn't any sign of weakness. Maybe that won't last?

Again, this isn't to challenge the advice I've received, but I do think if strength can be compromised more possibilities for design open up?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
 Similar topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
Oak table with table leg wedge joint and brass details

in General Woodworking

Ctech83

10

712

07 Jul 2017, 13:42

Router Table added to Harvey Table Saw - is it worth it?

in Buying Advice | Tool Reviews

Fulhamtim

3

467

26 Sep 2017, 17:48

Table: Will a wedge-joint be strong enough for the table leg

in General Woodworking

Ctech83

22

678

08 Jun 2017, 08:15

extention table for dewalt 745 table saw

in General Woodworking

bvmsheds

0

347

08 Mar 2017, 01:44

Which Table saw?

in Buying Advice | Tool Reviews

Cameronhill97

3

514

22 Feb 2017, 21:42


Register UKW

User Tools






UKW Local

Quickly find the nearest tool suppliers & timber merchants in your area





Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
UKW Terms & Privacy