Trump Brothers power saw restoration wip - now working!

[AndyT]

I recently treated myself to a new power saw, as seen on this thread. It's by Trump Brothers of Wilmington, Delaware. It is, naturally, foot powered:

I've now managed to make a start at putting it back into working order, so will start posting some pictures, as promised. It may be some time before I finish it enough to find out if it can work properly again.

Mostly, it's just dirty. All I want to do is to make it clean to handle and lubricated to work. I certainly don't want it to look new!

I've used the stock 'reviver' mixture I wrote about here - a mixture of white spirit, meths, vinegar, linseed oil and ammonia.

It works well on wood - this is the base of the foot treadle before:

and partly done:

It's also good for getting years of dirt off metal parts. Here's the cast iron treadle coming clean:

This is the circular work table. You can see it has broken and been quite neatly mended.

On the other side the dirt is lifting off:

For the working side, I used some micromesh with WD40:

Wipe off, repeat and then apply some Renaissance wax:

That leaves a nice smooth stable surface which should be easy to keep clean.

This is the working part, showing the state of the two tone paint job before any cleaning:

The main flywheel before:

and after:

So that's all for now. Future instalments will include more of the same sort of thing!

 

[No skills]

Well I've certainly never seen one of those before. The iron work is very ornate for a working tool, good luck with the re-build.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

That's a serious piece of fine foundry work! Those thin, ornate castings are quite difficult to do reliably. The patternmaker must have cursed under his breath when he first saw the drawings, too!

One thing that does occur is that somebody thought well enough of it's capabilities to have the table mended. That bodes well for it's future operability.

By the way - there's a reason for the curly spokes on the flywheel. If you pour molten iron into a mould of flywheel shape with straight spokes, and then allow it to cool, it will obviously (as is the wont of anything metallic) contract as it cools. The sand of the mould will hold the rim and boss tight in place, so the spoke as it contracts will often develop cracks or serious porosity where it joins the boss. The curved spokes, having a bit more flexibility, can move a bit to accomodate the shrinkage. (Thicker castings were usually provided with reservoirs of molten metal to 'feed' the shrinkage points of the casting as they solidified and shrank.) Getting it right is one of the skills of good foundry work - they clearly got it right with this one!

 

[adzeman]

AndyT buying a power saw? I didnt know what to expect bur certainly not that. How old?

 

[AndyT]

AndyT buying a power saw? I didnt know what to expect bur certainly not that. How old?

:lol:


The patent dates give a clue to age:

patented July 23 72 (ie 1872!)

re-issued November 6 77

so it would have been some time not too long after 1877. This really useful post on the OWWM site has a page from an 1884 catalogue listing it at $22.50 with the "fancy" stand ($1.50 dearer than the plain option!)

It also has pictures of an even nicer specimen than mine, complete with the optional extra blower and drill attachments, plus a foot to hold the work down (which I hope I won't need).

CC, that's interesting about the casting practicalities - I just love the way the pattern maker was allowed to let rip with the carving!

 

[Scouse]

You lucky sod!!! That's a thing of beauty, makes my battered Hobbies treadle saw look a bit utilitarian!

 

[wallace]

That is a really nice piece of old iron. I like that you're not repainting it. It adds to the character. I am leaving the suttcliffe planer I got with all its patina.
Mark

 

[AndyT]

A quick update with a few more pictures of progress on cleaning up this old saw.

This general view shows how the way that the flywheel turns a smaller wheel which has a rod on it to pull the blade down, tensioned by a big steel spring. (There's another spring at the top end.)

What is slightly odd is that a previous owner has decided to add an auxiliary wooden pulley wheel.

This is possible to do, as they big flywheel has two grooves in it, side by side. One would have gone onto the small metal pulley, the other onto the optional extra drilling attachment which I don't have. I need to decide whether to keep the wooden pulley and use it or use the metal one. I think I will keep both if I can. I have enough belting to make two different length belts, so I should have a choice of two speeds!

The wheel has four neatly drilled and tapped holes which the wooden pulley was screwed to:

Unfortunately, the screws were rusted in and two of them snapped off leaving remnants in the holes.

This is the mess that was underneath:

Fortunately, I was able to drill out the remnants and clean up the holes, which were tapped 1/4" Whitworth:

I even have some replacement screws! My reward for not throwing old fixings away.

Some of the other threads are close to Whitworth but not exactly the same. I think one or two of the screws that I have are only 'nearly right' and might need a bit of extra filing to get them working properly.

This is certainly one of those jobs where the cleaning takes a lot longer than writing up a description!

More soon.

 

[Steve Maskery]

I didn't know that about curved spokes. Thanks very much, very interesting.
S

PS My grandad was a pattern-maker. I have a 2-foot rule of his with 4 different 2-foot marked on it. I gather it was for making moulds for different metals, which shrink by different amounts. One scale for casting iron, a different one for making moulds for casting aluminium, etc. Unfortunately it is almost unreadable these days, so is really only useful as a straightedge.

 

[AndyT]

Another update - the restoration is finished and it works!

I'd decided to keep the extra wooden pulley but also wanted to be able to try the original small pulley. However, once I had glued up the pulley (which was only nailed) and replaced the screws, I found a design flaw - the round head screws would foul the driving belt:

This was easily fixed by drilling down a liitle with a forstner bit

and shortening the screws again.

I fixed the treadle to the footboard and did lots more detailed stuff around fastenings and greasing. It was nice to be able to replace one or two metric bolts which had been jammed in with proper Whitworth threaded replacements. (I was a bit surprised that it had Whit threads; whatever they are they are close enough to take Whit fixings.) There was also a lot of fiddling about with the treadle linkage. As it is, the treadle can make the wheels can turn in either direction; the effect on the blade is the same.

With most of it reassembled I was able to try it with a piece of wire in place of a blade:

This confirmed that the old belt slipped on the small metal pulley, so I joined up a new one to fit on the wooden pulley.

The blade length needs to be 110mm rather than the standard 130mm, but this is easily fixed with a pair of wire cutters. The rather crude blade clamps are better than something with pins in that respect. There is some latitude to increase the tension - but only by further shortening the blade, so it's something I shall need to experiment with.

Here's another view of the works, with the table not fixed, showing the variable speed motor in the neutral or 'rest' position.

So, by this time the next step was to put a proper blade in and give it a go. I'm pleased to report that it works!

Obviously, I have a lot to learn. The treadling motion is not the same as pedalling a bike and it's quite an effort!

And to prove it's not just a fancy exercise bike here's a jigsaw piece cut from 4mm ply with a really fine blade:

Overall, I'm feeling pleased that I took the risk; if anyone else spots one, I recommend that you do the same!

 

[No skills]

Excellent, good work. Are you interested in scroll work much, or was it a passing fancy? (if you see what I mean).

 

[AndyT]

Excellent, good work. Are you interested in scroll work much, or was it a passing fancy? (if you see what I mean).

That's a good question. Mostly it was the old tool appeal that grabbed me. I will definitely play with it, but I expect it will be more in the direction of 1880s or 1920s fretwork, not cutesy little animals. (Just my taste; each to his own etc.)

 

[ColeyS1]

Superb restoration and it looks like it cuts nicely to well done on completing it Andy

 

[Duncan A]

Hi Andy

Regarding the Whitworth threads, on an American machine they are most likely to be UNC which has the same tpi as BSW up to 1/2" so can be considered interchangeable despite having a slightly different profile. I think I've seen a discussion of this interchangeability on UKW in the past, with comments to the effect that it is sacrilege to mix the different profiles - although of course it is a frequent bodge simply due to necessity!

Duncan

 

[stevebuk]

Excellent, good work. Are you interested in scroll work much, or was it a passing fancy? (if you see what I mean).

That's a good question. Mostly it was the old tool appeal that grabbed me. I will definitely play with it, but I expect it will be more in the direction of 1880s or 1920s fretwork, not cutesy little animals. (Just my taste; each to his own etc.)

i suppose that would depend on how easy(quick) it is to change the blade, or remove the top half if doing lot of inside cuts, as you will be, doing early stuff..

 

[MIGNAL]

Brilliant! Serious bit of cast iron for a treadle fretsaw. A friend has a Hobbies saw that he might let go of. I think I'll have to join in with the the foot power.

 

[yetloh]

Andy,

Lovely work, congratulations. If you should need fateners in odd threads Stig's Fatseners http://www.a2stainless.co.uk/ are very helpful and have a wide range - all in stainless, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Jim

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Something very attractive about the idea of not being tied to mains electricity.

One of the shots of the machine assembled, but without the table, suggests that the table can be set at an angle to the blade. That could make such work as Boulle marquetry possible. Ok - maybe a bit ambitious for a first project, but later, maybe?

 

[AndyT]

Something very attractive about the idea of not being tied to mains electricity.

One of the shots of the machine assembled, but without the table, suggests that the table can be set at an angle to the blade. That could make such work as Boulle marquetry possible. Ok - maybe a bit ambitious for a first project, but later, maybe?

Well spotted CC, that's definitely a design feature, with the part-circular casting on the table sitting in a matching cup,tiltable either way.

I do intend to try turning some layers of veneer into decoratively shaped scrap, but am thinking myself into a corner.

If I do tilt the table, trying to get a tapered, 'plugging' piece, won't I need to do only left or right handed cuts, then tilt the other way for the opposite cuts? And if I do manage to cut a symmetrically tapered plug wouldn't it just sink down into the tapered hole? (I'd have cut the hole at the same time.)
Is the trick to have a stack of layers and throw one away?

One description I read described using a right angled cut and filling in the gaps with tinted glue, which does sound simpler!

 

[Cheshirechappie]

As I have no experience whatsoever of either fretwork or Boulle-work, I can only speculate.

Smaller workpieces could be worked round the table so that the right-hand cuts become left-hand cuts (if you see what I mean). Wouldn't work with larger pieces, because they'd swing where the operator has to sit. So for them, some means of setting left-and-right would seem necessary.

How much tilt the table would need for the top piece to drop neatly into the lower piece would depend on the thickness of the veneers, and the thickness of the blade. The only way I can see of establishing the angle for any given combination is a trial on a scrap piece. Once the angle is ascertained, a simple card template cut to the angle between table and blade would serve to repeat settings either left or right. I think it would work if the 'veneers' were a good bit thicker than the blade. Not so easy with standard modern 0.7mm veneers.

If blades are thin, the right-angled cut might not be too much to disguise, especially if one of the woods was very dark anyway.

The idea of using a three-layer sandwich and throwing away the 'filling' sounds a possible. Mind you, throwing anything away goes a bit against my scruples, unless it's something like cardboard.

Lots of scope for experiments, research and possible investment in LAP's upcoming treatise on Marquetry!