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By bp122
#1336847
Hi there

I have an old ebay Bailey No.4 smoothing plane.
I have had this for over a year, but only used it properly for the last 6 months.

Having learnt a lot about setting up a plane and sharpening (I hear popping of corn from the regulars here :D :D :D) I used it on my first set of projects just before Christmas making presents and it felt great. I used this plane along with my No. 6

Now, one of those presents was an oak serving tray for my mother in law, which she loved, came back to me for completion (I had just made the board, but let her pick the handles out for it and now she has)

Anyway, while correcting the twist on it, I noticed my plane was misbehaving. While planing, the right side was digging in and no cutting from the left side. Quick sight down and lateral adjustments using the lever - squared it up across the width and started planing. Minutes later, same issue and the blade was poking out of the left side.

I sharpened the plane again to eliminate that as a culprit, put everything back and still same issue. Took it apart again and decided to check the blade thoroughly - found out the edge is not square to the sides.

I use a cheap honing guide for all my chisels and plane blades and it holds it pretty square (I know, there is no such thing, but still!)
I spent a long time on my diamond stones biasing my pressure to even out the blade edge to get it square and put a camber on it while I am at it (never done it, first time)
Put it all back together and the plane is still not cutting as it used to. Works reasonably well on a piece of pine and produced translucent shavings, but on oak it is still struggling and not working as it used to.

Any thoughts?

While we are on the subject of plane blades out of square, I bought a "factory seconds" Axminster Rider 3-in-1 plane from ebay (bull nose, shoulder and chisel plane in one) and the blade in it is also out of square (guess that is why it was factory seconds). I can use the help for two planes here.

Apologies for the long post and the unnecessary details, I use 10 words where 4 will do!
User avatar
By AndyT
#1336857
The most likely problem is that on the oak you could be planing against the grain. If you have any otfcuts of the same oak, try planing one way, then the other.

Plane like you're stroking a cat and you'll be fine.

Also, if the angle is changing in use, tighten the lever cap screw a little. It might only need an eighth of a turn to get that sweet spot where everything stays put but is still adjustable for depth of cut.
User avatar
By MikeG.
#1336862
Is the lateral adjusting lever moving in use? If it is, then you need to tighten down the screw holding the lever cap, as well as checking that the frog is truly flat. If the frog has a high spot the blade can more easily move when it comes against something hard like a knot.

A blade a little out of square isn't really an issue. The lateral lever adjustment takes care of that, within reason. After you have sharpened and re-assembled your plane, you should put a bit of thinnish scrap in your vice and plane it using each edge of the blade. They should take the same size shaving, and fine adjustments of the lateral adjusting lever will achieve this.
User avatar
By El Barto
#1336863
What Andy said.

It sounds like as you plane and the blade meets resistance, it's getting pushed to one side because it's not sitting snug enough.
User avatar
By MikeG.
#1336864
AndyT wrote:......Plane like you're stroking a cat.......


What, with the toe end of a big boot? How's that going to work? :lol:
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By Ttrees
#1336865
Sounds like it might be a good idea to check the frog is seated.

With your 3 in 1 plane is the iron ground square or does it need to be skewed to show an even iron projection?
If so...that error is referred to as the Azimuth error.

Tom
User avatar
By bp122
#1336889
MikeG. wrote:Is the lateral adjusting lever moving in use? If it is, then you need to tighten down the screw holding the lever cap, as well as checking that the frog is truly flat. If the frog has a high spot the blade can more easily move when it comes against something hard like a knot.

A blade a little out of square isn't really an issue. The lateral lever adjustment takes care of that, within reason. After you have sharpened and re-assembled your plane, you should put a bit of thinnish scrap in your vice and plane it using each edge of the blade. They should take the same size shaving, and fine adjustments of the lateral adjusting lever will achieve this.


Yes, the lateral adjuster has moved after a few strokes. I had loosened the screw because I couldn't flip the lever on the lever cap to lock position. I have seen on videos where this lever makes a clean "snap" sound when locked, mine has never done that, in fact my No. 6 doesn't do that either. But it was really tight, so I had loosened it in fear of breaking the lever. Will fiddle with it today at some point.

I'll also check the frog for unevenness.
The left / right shaving check seems to be a good idea, will try that too.

Thanks guys.
User avatar
By bp122
#1336891
Ttrees wrote:With your 3 in 1 plane is the iron ground square or does it need to be skewed to show an even iron projection?
If so...that error is referred to as the Azimuth error.

Tom


When I put the blade in the plane and put the lever cap on it (only here it is a screw type) whilst resting the plane on a flat surface on its side, so that the blade and the side wall of the plane are flush, retract the blade in and tighten the screw on the cap. Then I slowly get the blade to come out using the adjuster, when it does, the right side of the blade pokes out first when I sight down - all while remaining flush and square to the side of the plane.
That is when I took the blade off and checked whether the cutting edge was square to the sides, it wasn't.
By AJB Temple
#1336892
Working "reasonably well" on pine.....aside from the above, have your sharpening and bevel efforts in resulted in a bad angle or a blade that is not sharp. A sharp blade should do translucent fine cuts with minimal effort. Check that as well.
By Bod
#1336915
Your honing guide, Stanley or Eclipse?
My betting is on Stanley, very easy to get the blade out of square with those.
Eclipse type, difficult to correct any out of square, but not impossible. Just be aware where the pressure needs to be, to remove the high end.

Bod
By D_W
#1336919
Make sure that the blade is resting on the frog and not on the adjuster pawl. Sometimes, the slot is too narrow for the cap iron to descend all the way to the frog and you'll have issues like you're describing.

Good practice on every new plane to go around and check that all of the screws are tight and nothing jiggles (the adjuster can be noisy or loose, but that doesn't matter).
By Nigel Burden
#1336923
If the lever on the lever cap is difficult to snap down it could be that the cam on the lever is too square. This would lead you to slacken the screw which could cause blade movement. IIRC, Paul Sellers mentioned the lever cap cam being too square in one of his blogs.

The third blog down describes what I'm talking about.

https://paulsellers.com/?s=Lever+cap+%234+plane

Nigel.
User avatar
By Pete Maddex
#1336928
Flatten the face of the frog as mentioned above, and lap the frog so it fully contacts the bed. That should sort out most of your problems.

Pete
By Nigel Burden
#1336939
Just a thought. You say that your no6 doesn't do this. Is the tote on the no4 closer to the lateral adjustment lever than on the no6? Do you have large hands? If so, is it possible that your hand is inadvertently nudging the lateral lever affecting the adjustment?

Nigel.
By D_W
#1336974
Pete Maddex wrote:Flatten the face of the frog as mentioned above, and lap the frog so it fully contacts the bed. That should sort out most of your problems.

Pete


Beware when doing this, you'll have a tendency to make a frog face convex. The presence of the cap iron should flex the iron a little bit so that a perfectly flat frog face isn't needed. The pressure on the iron on the bottom side (contacting the frog) will be about where the cap hump is (since the lever cap is influencing it) and just under the cam of the lever cap (or screw if it's screw type).

If there's a fault on a frog, it's more often slag or a point contaminant that may have gotten onto the face of the frog - if something like that is felt, file it off.

The iron and cap iron can never really be in a flat state - they're too thin and with too many forces involved if the cap iron is properly sprung. I think this troubles a lot of newbies, but this is a bias in favor of the plane user and maker. A good one.