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By Doug71
#1305699
A customer has asked me to make a couple of Yorkshire light/horizontal sliding sash windows, I haven't made any of these for years! I always made them traditionally, the sash just sliding on a hardwood lath, they would stick in winter and rattle in summer.

I see some companies sell metal tracks and rollers for them which would help, add a few draught strips and it might make a serviceable window? Also guess Accoya would help solve the swelling sash problem.

Thing is building is listed so I might have to make them like for like anyway, will know more after I have had a measure up.

Anybody making them still or got any experience of the metal tracks etc?

Thanks, Doug
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By MikeG.
#1305703
If the building is listed, then these works will have required permission, and it is an absolute certainty that this permission would have required 1:1 or 1:2 detailed sections of the joinery. I urge you to check with your employer, the architect, your customer, or the planner, before you make something which could later be rejected by the Listed Buildings consultant or subject to enforcement by the planners. Believe it or not, there is actual criminal liability involved with works to a listed building, so I would strongly suggest you pass the decision making on this over to the person whose role it is. If the owner hasn't sought permission to replace windows, then you might be wise to suggest that he does, because again, it is a criminal offense to do such works to a listed building without permission.

Sorry if that all sounds a bit heavy, but I've seen a builder ruined by doing a couple of small jobs to a listed building without permission. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
By Doug71
#1305710
Yes, thanks Mike, I understand all that and totally agree.

I am only going initially to look at the job and give them an estimate for making windows, I generally try and avoid fitting windows these days, too much like hard work when you work alone.

People often moan about their buildings being listed but it does sometimes help as they don't always have to comply with other regs.
By Blackswanwood
#1305766
Our house is listed Grade 2 but we are also classed as within the curtilage of a Grade 1 listed building which makes things complicated. When we bought and renovated the house c6yrs ago we replaced the 1970’s windows that somehow had been put in by the previous owner with Yorkshire Sliders based on photographs dating back to the start of the last century.

It may be that as we were rescuing the building we were cut some slack by the planners who confirmed the design in a detailed drawing of the windows was acceptable. The windows run on rollers on a metal bead, look the part and work very effectively.
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By MikeG.
#1305789
One curiosity for me is how these windows have become called "Yorkshire", when they were found all over the country. Signs of them are to be found in most timber frame buildings here in East Anglia, some are still extant, and I've seen them in houses in Kent, Sussex, Devon, Shropshire, Worcestershire and Herefordshire amongst others.

The predecessor of the modern window (in the UK) was a hole in the wall covered (internally) by a panel of woven hazel or willow, then later by waxed cloth. This was slid along the cill to open or close. The earliest openable glazed windows merely took this exact same pattern but used glass in a frame. Thus, the horizontal sliding sash was the first form of openable window, and was found from Kent to Cornwall, Sussex to Scotland. So how come Yorkshire gets its name stuck to the design?
By rafezetter
#1305857
No idea MikeG - but a quick google produced some other interesting info, the sash window design came about from the time when streets were narrow and a window with a pane that swings open could have touched the opposite building or "impeded the path of a thatcher".

Maybe the nickname, and thier tendancy to get tight in the winter and a Yorkshiremans predilection for frugality are related? :wink:
By Blackswanwood
#1305957
It is odd how place names attach themselves to things ... Bombay Sapphire Gin is apparently made in Andover ...

I remember reading in some blurb from English Heritage that building regulations introduced after the Fire of London led to the development of the sash window as the timber all had to be set back from the line of the brickwork.
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By MikeG.
#1305969
Don't confuse sash windows with horizontal sliding sash windows. They're very different beasts, and the latter pre-dates the fire of London by centuries.
By Doug71
#1305978
Blackswanwood wrote:
I remember reading in some blurb from English Heritage that building regulations introduced after the Fire of London led to the development of the sash window as the timber all had to be set back from the line of the brickwork.


I prefer the look of windows set further back from the front of the brickwork and they catch less weather, why is it not done like this more often? They don't have to be put in from the inside/ in a reveal just set back a bit more than usual.

There are some new houses being built near me, fake stone cills with pvc windows set back about 25mm, the pvc windows have normal cill/sub cill (75mm?) above the fake stone, just looks all wrong :cry:
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By Trevanion
#1306024
I don't think I've ever actually seen one of these in the flesh out here in the west, I honestly can't give any advice on it. I'm not sure what the planning boards are like in your side of the country but they've definitely become more relaxed over here, I've seen a few listed building signed off for plastic windows and doors.

Perhaps they were given the name as they were more prevalent in Yorkshire as they take a veeeery long time to accept new ideas? :lol: "VERTICAL OPENING SASHES!? Pah!"
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By MikeG.
#1306030
Trevanion wrote:......... I've seen a few listed building signed off for plastic windows and doors........


I'd be absolutely staggered if this were the case. That's jaw-dropping.....
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By Benchwayze
#1306059
It's my guess that windows were probably called wind holes originally? :mrgreen:

John (hammer)
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By Trevanion
#1306191
MikeG. wrote:I'd be absolutely staggered if this were the case. That's jaw-dropping.....


I said" I know of a few", I really meant to say two :lol:. One was right on the seafront and had aluminium clad softwood windows put in the front (Which I realistically don't see lasting anywhere near 10 years even with the cladding, I pulled some softwood boxed sash out of a house not far away and they'd only been in there 4 years before the cills totally rotted out) and plastic fantastic in the back. Grade 2 listed building, to be fair, the original (Or at least the last iteration) windows were very straightforward casement windows with nothing fancy going on, 4 square panes and that was about it so the plastic and ally-clad ones look pretty much identical from a short distance away. But it's still a bit of a kick in the teeth when they're letting stuff like that slide through because listed buildings are one of the few things that are keeping the joinery trade going around here, I am hoping it's not going to become too commonplace.
By Doug71
#1306227
A good few years ago I made some double glazed sliding sash windows for a customer, supply only, they just brought me the measurements.

A couple of months later I had the sashes back in my workshop swapping the double glazing for single glazing as turned out the place was listed. Customer paid for all the work but I always ask now.