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By Chris152
#1296780
We got going on this at last. I'm building with my son who's obsessed with surfing and it seemed a good way to get him making after the end of gcses, and I'm pretty excited too.

We downloaded a free plan for a 7' 6" magic carpet from the net
https://www.instructables.com/id/Hollow ... ic-Carpet/
printed the plan on A4 sheets that we (I) taped together (using Adobe reader and printing as a poster), spray mounted on ply for the skeleton (ribs and stringer) and bottom, then got to work with the bandsaw.

IMG_1986.jpg

IMG_1989 (1).jpg

IMG_1990.jpg


I'm trying to decide a couple of things.

1. The rails (the edges of the board, where top connects to bottom) can be done with a single layer of thin strips of bead and cove profile that interlock and curve; with a single layer of thin strips planed to run and connect flush as they follow the curve of the rail (top to bottom of the rail), the curve of the board (profile seen from above) and the curve of the rocker (profile from side); or with solid strips built up on truncated ends of the ribs (so they attach flat) and then shaped to follow the curve achieved in the first two options.
I'm tending to think the last is the easiest for me (tho it'll be a bit heavier, not so good) - the second will need adjustment for each rib that each strip needs to connect to (which will drive me nuts) , and while the first looks easiest over all, my router table has no way of attaching featherboards so the strips (/my fingers) could end up a terrible mess.

2. Most people seem to use western red cedar but I can only find that in green form (we want to get on with making) so I'm wondering what alternatives we could use. It needs to be light and dry, and will be machined to 6mm thickness before connecting to the top in strips (the base is a sheet of 5.5mm ply).

Any thoughts much appreciated, I'll update as we go!
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By Trainee neophyte
#1296864
I have yet to begin my board, but it's looking to be fairly soon, fingers crossed.

Check out the videos on the Sliver paddleboard site: https://sliverpaddleboards.com/paddleboard-building/
https://sliverpaddleboards.com/paddlebo ... rails-101/

It's for paddleboard, but the same rules apply. I would recommend bead and cove, only because it seems to be the standard way to do things, but NB I haven't actually built one yet, so it is all theory.

Regarding wood, the new best thing ever is paulonia, if you can find it. It has the density of balsa wood, is virtually knot-free, has interesting grain and colouring, and is hard as nails, allegedly. There is no way I will be able to get any, but if you can, it is the wood to use. Otherwise pine will work,I understand. Mahogany would look cool, but you may not be able to lift it.

Finally, and not necessarily important, making a table that fits the profile of your board stringer may make things easier (I am looking to make a 14' paddleboard, which is double the size of your board, so may only apply for long, long boards).
https://sliverpaddleboards.com/paddlebo ... bly-table/
By Chris152
#1296871
Thanks Trainee neophyte - I'd not thought of pine but I'm sure you're right, and easy to get - I reckon that's what we'll do. As for mahogany, the plan's to insert three thin strips of contrasting wood just for looks so that should help keep weight down but still look good. We'll see about the latter, tho (dodgy workmanship...). 14' paddleboard sounds like a beast!

I'd found that sliverpaddleboards site and it's really helpful - we're planning to build the table/ supports for ribs tomorrow.

OK, if we go down the bead and cove route - instead of featherboards on the router table, is it an option to use a couple of strips of wood clamped in place (one guiding horizontally on the table, and one holding vertically on the fence) to guide the wood to be cut? Or is that too rigid for the job? We'll need to buy a couple of new router bits if we do.

Really appreciate your thoughts.
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By Trainee neophyte
#1296875
Chris152 wrote:Thanks Trainee neophyte - I'd not thought of pine but I'm sure you're right, and easy to get - I reckon that's what we'll do. As for mahogany, the plan's to insert three thin strips of contrasting wood just for looks so that should help keep weight down but still look good. We'll see about the latter, tho (dodgy workmanship...). 14' paddleboard sounds like a beast!

I'd found that sliverpaddleboards site and it's really helpful - we're planning to build the table/ supports for ribs tomorrow.

OK, if we go down the bead and cove route - instead of featherboards on the router table, is it an option to use a couple of strips of wood clamped in place (one guiding horizontally on the table, and one holding vertically on the fence) to guide the wood to be cut? Or is that too rigid for the job? We'll need to buy a couple of new router bits if we do.

Really appreciate your thoughts.


If you can clamp things to your table, can you not make your own feather boards to fit? I have a "router table" that is almost impossible to clamp things to - makes things doubly difficult. Please note - I am not a font of wisdom - very much a newbie! https://m.youtube.com/results?search_qu ... for+router
By Chris152
#1296879
You're right - I'd forgotten that option. Searching now for a Flute and Bead Cutter Set of the right size (6mm diameter) and I'm struggling - and they don't look cheap! Maybe it'd be cheaper to get them cut for me. Decisions decisions... :-)
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By Trainee neophyte
#1296893
Chris152 wrote:You're right - I'd forgotten that option. Searching now for a Flute and Bead Cutter Set of the right size (6mm diameter) and I'm struggling - and they don't look cheap! Maybe it'd be cheaper to get them cut for me. Decisions decisions... :-)


Keep posting your progress - if only just for me! I need some encouragement to get started. If only I can 1) get rid of family & friends who all come to stay for a free beach holiday, and 2) finish the evil bathroom cabinet, I can get on with it. Depressingly, I think my first board will be a boxy, not so challenging kuholo (https://www.fyneboatkits.co.uk/kits/sur ... ds/kaholo/) because I need a 14' tourer. As soon as that is done, I will be after a Sliver board, because they are gorgeous. Inlaid olive wood is the plan, because I live on an olive farm - it seems appropriate, and I have LOTS!
By Chris152
#1296915
Trainee neophyte wrote:...and another thing: http://www.ipaulownia.co.uk/paulownia-s ... ia-timber/

That's brilliant, Tn - I've put in a enquiry (bit odd you can't just buy it?!) - we'll see. Tho olive would be rather nice!

ps - here's a build using the strip method for rails I thought to use: http://www.hollowsurfboards.com/documents/TheBasics.pdf (scroll down).
pps - that Fyne kit looks like a good build, some nice details and lovely shape - tho I've never tried SUP and pretty sure I never will judging by the struggles I see beginners having here!
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By Trainee neophyte
#1296987
Chris152 wrote:
Trainee neophyte wrote:...and another thing: http://www.ipaulownia.co.uk/paulownia-s ... ia-timber/

That's brilliant, Tn - I've put in a enquiry (bit odd you can't just buy it?!) - we'll see. Tho olive would be rather nice!

ps - here's a build using the strip method for rails I thought to use: http://www.hollowsurfboards.com/documents/TheBasics.pdf (scroll down).
pps - that Fyne kit looks like a good build, some nice details and lovely shape - tho I've never tried SUP and pretty sure I never will judging by the struggles I see beginners having here!


Don't have any surf here, so next best thing is paddleboarding. Your strip rail method looks "easier", but that is a lot of of extra wood to be carrying around. I hope you have a short walk across the beach! It should be extra strong if you are planning to bounce the board against rocks on a regular basis (ouch!), but I would worry about the weight, both for carrying, and for performance. Given that I will be making a board twice as long as yours, I don't think I will be able to use that technique, as the weight will be an issue - I'll have to add wheels, and possibly a motor, just to get to the water :-( It does look like an easier method, but bead and cove rails ought to be strong enough, and as long as you have enough clamps, not too difficult to shape. Just cutting the things with fingers intact will be the challenge. Re 6mm bits - I had some which didn't fit my 1\4" router so I got a local guy to machine them smaller - not a perfect solution, as they still don't fit perfectly. However, isn't there a collet adapter for your router? Something like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4x-Router-Bi ... ect=mobile
By Chris152
#1297059
Very little accomplished today, the sea called and then it was too hot to do anything...

You're right, it will end up heavier - if I could find a cheaper and right size bead and cove set i think I'd try (the 6mm I referred to wasn't the collet size but diameter of the bead, 3mm radius? I've only ever used a couple of straight bits on my router, complete newbie to it, so let me know if I'm confusing things?). But, in order to think through the extra weight I did a full-size drawing of the ideal scenario (quite different to my actual craftsmanship) on the thickest rib (less strips needed for the rails toward front and rear):
IMG_1991.jpg

That wouldn't be sooo heavy by the time it's planed to shape, assuming I could accurately glue up the strips. What do you reckon?

ps Didn't hear back from iPaulownia. It's a weird site, and they have their Spanish and British contact numbers the wrong way round. I'll try to call tomorrow if I get a chance.
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By Trainee neophyte
#1297070
Chris152 wrote:Very little accomplished today, the sea called and then it was too hot to do anything...

You're right, it could well end up heavier - if I could find a cheaper and right size bead and cove set i think I'd try (the 6mm I referred to wasn't the collet size but diameter of the bead, 3mm radius? I've only ever used a couple of straight bits on my router, complete newbie to it, so let me know if I'm confusing things?). But, in order to think through the extra weight I did a full-size drawing of the ideal scenario (quite different to my actual craftsmanship) on the thickest rib (less strips needed for the rails toward front and rear):
IMG_1991.jpg

That wouldn't be sooo heavy by the time it's planed to shape, assuming I could accurately glue up the strips. What do you reckon?


That'll be me not understanding the router reference - told you I'm a newbie. Regarding the plan - do you think this will be as strong as the bead and cove design? Everyone clams that a glued surface is stronger than wood, but if that is the case, why do so many joints fail at the glued surface, and not elsewhere...? (Or do they? Again I may not be qualified to comment). I would think a cupped surface would be less likely to shear than a flat surface. It seems that I am added to the cove and bead system, which is odd, given that I have never made a board. Perhaps I should stop proffering unsupported advice. Once I have made a few boards, I will be in a better position to comment.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yakamoz-4-Inch ... 5ED500MFXT

1/4" = 6mm ish, does it not?
By Inspector
#1297080
Lee Valley to the rescue if all else fails. http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.a ... 9435,46174 Look for canoe router bits on eBay and there are tons but the shipping may take a while.

Another option is to plank it like you were using cove and bead pieces but bevel each piece with a hand plane to fit it's neighbour. Carvel planking on a tiny scale. :wink:

Pete
By Chris152
#1297083
Just off to bed and saw your post, Tn - it's arriving Saturday! (Only one left so thought best not delay.) I did search, honest!

Pete - people do do it as you suggest but there are so many variables I'm very confident I'd make a terrible mess of it. #-o

Thanks both, C
By Chris152
#1297516
Glue-up board done (supports held in place with hot glue); position of each rib and the stringer marked up in pencil; holes cut in frame to lighten the load. I might try to get a bit more off the thinner ribs before glue up and I still need to sand the edges of the ribs.
IMG_1994.jpg

Router bits arrived today, just need to muster the courage to use them!
By Chris152
#1298580
Sanding of frame done and cut-outs for the first bit of the ribs finished. I'm now just experimenting with a dry fit to see how to clamp it in place - the hardest part is pressing the ply sheet (base) down onto shims underneath so the base presses up into the concave section on the underside of the frame.
Oh, and I could do with more clamps - might have to resort to concrete blocks to supplement the downward pressure.
IMG_2021.jpg

As for the wood for the deck, I saw packs of spruce cladding at B&Q for a good price, 7.5 mm thick so not much to remove to 6 mm, so might go with that and dye a couple of the boards for contrast. (Spruce is apparently heavier than western red cedar but lighter than pine.) And pine for the rails - again, bq have 6 mm stripwood which is the right thickness so saves time.

One question - how long is the open time for Titebond III? This is a complex glue-up for me.

Edit - I realised that the frame is glued before glueing to the base so all good on drying time. I hot glued little blocks to hold it all square and glued up, and will join to the base tomorrow.
IMG_2024.jpg