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By IgmaImaging
#1261887
I have created a wall cladding in a coffee shop using oak veneer, it has been stained walnut using van dyke crystals.
It is now in situ and I need to seal the wood so it can be cleaned, or at least be wiped down. Any advise on products? Tried may things but I find any water based solutions wants to pull the stain off.
By rafezetter
#1262349
I think to be honest, the reason this has had 84 views and no replies is because if you are doing commercial work, you really should have done better research before accepting the job, or admitted you didn't have the required skillset and turned it down.

To answer your question there are a whole range of products that could be used, based on budget, wear tolerances required, and application method - can it be removed and laid flat or do you now have to do it in situ.

Some of us here could give you the answers, but I think YOU need to LEARN which products do what, and of those, which are most suitable for your current task, just as those of us in the trade did.

There are plenty of books and websites on the subject of applying dyes of various types and the pitfalls associated with each in regards to finishing - I suggest those be your next point of attention.

It's not the answer you wanted, or one you'll be happy with I'm sure, but ultimately, it's the one you NEED to be given, if you are going to charge commercial rates for commerical work to the public.
User avatar
By nev
#1262357
Wow!
That is a fairly rude (although politely worded) and unwelcoming reply. Why not just say *&^^&% off and stop stealing my work.
The reason the OP may have had no replies could be that no-one that has read it has had the answer.
Most members of the forum would offer advice freely if they had it, that after all, is why most of us are here, to learn and share knowledge.
Sorry Igmal but I don't know the answer, hopefully someone may suggest something useful.
User avatar
By sammy.se
#1262362
I'm no expert, just reading another on here recently that said Osmo Raw worked well for retaining the natural colour of the wood on a floor - hardwearing - perhaps some testing with some Osmo products?

I used sanding sealer and wax over a large picture frame made from beech and stained with VD crystals. Good finish, not sure it would withstand a commercial environment,
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By marcros
#1262365
products like Osmo are not cheap, in part because behind them they have a very professional technical dept behind them. I would give them a call, telling them that you have a water based stain, and what you want to achieve. You can also buy sales of many of their products to test on scrap, for a pound or two each.
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By CHJ
#1262371
The only way I can envision treating a stained surface that is prone to drag or lifting is to spray a sealer coat, that would not disturb any surface features.

I can't envision that a surface stained with Vandyke solution would leave a surface coating that would lift.

As far as rafezetter's comments, when I first saw this thread a few minutes after it was posted I was about to make my above comments but decided at that time not to when I realised that the OP has a comercial web site offering very elaborate high end work and partakes in comercial trade shows, as such the request for assistance as worded did not ring true with the claims of the web site.
By rafezetter
#1262452
CHJ wrote:The only way I can envision treating a stained surface that is prone to drag or lifting is to spray a sealer coat, that would not disturb any surface features.

I can't envision that a surface stained with Vandyke solution would leave a surface coating that would lift.

As far as rafezetter's comments, when I first saw this thread a few minutes after it was posted I was about to make my above comments but decided at that time not to when I realised that the OP has a comercial web site offering very elaborate high end work and partakes in comercial trade shows, as such the request for assistance as worded did not ring true with the claims of the web site.


I know I came across as not particularly forgiving - but I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed the discrepancy.

http://igma-imaging.co.uk/

I'm sorry you personally don't like my reply Nev - but when people have websites like that, then ask a fundamentally basic question about finishing - it gets my goat, because this is how a customers perception of "what is said, compared to what is delivered" negatively effects those of us in a similar business.

Why didn't the OP ASK the customer what sort of effects the cladding was likely to be subjected to - spillage, children, whatever; what sort of cleaning regimen was going to be applied and WHO was doing it - a commercial cleaners or the staff who probably would have little to no education on what you can and can't use to clean a specific finish used on an oak veneer surface, although to be honest the same could be said for a commercial cleaning company.

I could similarly pull a dozen or fifty pictures from the internet claiming I'm a superlative craftsman - but I ain't, so I don't have one, fact is I don't have one AT ALL, which might account for my less than £6000 earnings last year, or the year before that, or the year before that, and I don't do rubbish work either, you want confirmation ask Eriktheviking, he's let me loose on his house several times.

The OP's question just reeked of "I don't know what I'm doing".

I'm not rich, but I'm honest, and I WOULD HAVE ASKED THOSE QUESTIONS.

When you're a commercial company and have a website like that, but ask the question they did, I'm going to tell it like I see it

Take that how you like.

EDIT: Having got some food inside me and a coffee - I'll bring it down a notch.

If the OP had said "we've been asked to do XYZ, it's a bit of a departure from our normal work - and we would like some advice BEFORE accepting the work" I'd have given that advice, commercial venture or not, but I would have still suggested in future they do thier own research before coming here to get given an answer on a plate, saving them hours and teaching them nothing.

But what it seems like the OP has done is take the commission, FITTED the oak veneering, and is only now wondering what to do to finish it.

It's all pinapple backwards. Add the glossy website and voila - my repsonse came forth.
User avatar
By Sheffield Tony
#1262673
None of us know everything, so a straightforward answer to the original question...

I presume the "lifting off" of the stain is to say the stain near the surface of the wood is dissolving in the water based finish, maybe making the result streaky ?

I think a spirit/oil based, rather than water based finish is called for. I have used both Osmo PolyX and oil based polyurethane over Van Dyck stain without problems. Likely to be more durable for frequent cleaning in a cafe too, I should have thought.
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By nev
#1262710
rafezetter wrote:
CHJ wrote:The only way I can envision treating a stained surface that is prone to drag or lifting is to spray a sealer coat, that would not disturb any surface features.

I can't envision that a surface stained with Vandyke solution would leave a surface coating that would lift.

As far as rafezetter's comments, when I first saw this thread a few minutes after it was posted I was about to make my above comments but decided at that time not to when I realised that the OP has a comercial web site offering very elaborate high end work and partakes in comercial trade shows, as such the request for assistance as worded did not ring true with the claims of the web site.


I know I came across as not particularly forgiving - but I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed the discrepancy.

http://igma-imaging.co.uk/

I'm sorry you personally don't like my reply Nev - but when people have websites like that, then ask a fundamentally basic question about finishing - it gets my goat, because this is how a customers perception of "what is said, compared to what is delivered" negatively effects those of us in a similar business.

Why didn't the OP ASK the customer what sort of effects the cladding was likely to be subjected to - spillage, children, whatever; what sort of cleaning regimen was going to be applied and WHO was doing it - a commercial cleaners or the staff who probably would have little to no education on what you can and can't use to clean a specific finish used on an oak veneer surface, although to be honest the same could be said for a commercial cleaning company.

I could similarly pull a dozen or fifty pictures from the internet claiming I'm a superlative craftsman - but I ain't, so I don't have one, fact is I don't have one AT ALL, which might account for my less than £6000 earnings last year, or the year before that, or the year before that, and I don't do rubbish work either, you want confirmation ask Eriktheviking, he's let me loose on his house several times.

The OP's question just reeked of "I don't know what I'm doing".

I'm not rich, but I'm honest, and I WOULD HAVE ASKED THOSE QUESTIONS.

When you're a commercial company and have a website like that, but ask the question they did, I'm going to tell it like I see it

Take that how you like.

EDIT: Having got some food inside me and a coffee - I'll bring it down a notch.

If the OP had said "we've been asked to do XYZ, it's a bit of a departure from our normal work - and we would like some advice BEFORE accepting the work" I'd have given that advice, commercial venture or not, but I would have still suggested in future they do thier own research before coming here to get given an answer on a plate, saving them hours and teaching them nothing.

But what it seems like the OP has done is take the commission, FITTED the oak veneering, and is only now wondering what to do to finish it.

It's all pinapple backwards. Add the glossy website and voila - my repsonse came forth.


Understood, but if you read your reply as would a new visitor coming to this post in the future, I for one would think that ukw was not a very welcoming place with replies like that, and regardless if in your opinion the OP wears a ten gallon hat and carries a six shooter or not, a civil and polite question was asked and deserved nothing other than a civil and polite answer.

Any reply to any question posed on the forum should hopefully be answered helpfully, that way a community grows and everyone benefits.

As a wise woman once told me - "if you can't say anything nice, say nothing at all"
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By Trevanion
#1262719
I don't think you're supposed to anywhere near veneered doors with the Osmo PolyX and oils as it will strip the veneer off, not sure if that still applies to all veneered objects though.

I think your ideal finish would be probably Yacht Varnish, super hard wearing and is wipeable with a cloth if it gets messy, it's the same stuff on most restaurant tables. Should apply over Van Dyke Crystal stain just fine, although do a test piece first just to make doubly sure.
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By Sheffield Tony
#1262726
Trevanion wrote:I don't think you're supposed to anywhere near veneered doors with the Osmo PolyX and oils as it will strip the veneer off, not sure if that still applies to all veneered objects though.


I did say none of us know everything - I didn't know that :oops:. I'm sure I have used PolyX on ply and veneered MDF without disaster, but perhaps I was lucky and the veneer was thick enough, or the glue resiliant enough ?
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By Trevanion
#1262728
Sheffield Tony wrote:I did say none of us know everything - I didn't know that :oops:. I'm sure I have used PolyX on ply and veneered MDF without disaster, but perhaps I was lucky and the veneer was thick enough, or the glue resiliant enough ?


I'm not quite sure what it is, it may be the veneer-chipboard connection that's a recipe for disaster with the Osmo on the cheap internal doors. I've definitely seen doors painted with the stuff that have been fine, and also seen doors where the veneer started peeling off at the "joints" after being painted with it.
By phil.p
#1262761
Trevanion wrote:I think your ideal finish would be probably Yacht Varnish, super hard wearing and is wipeable with a cloth if it gets messy, it's the same stuff on most restaurant tables.


I doubt that nowadays - varnish takes too long to dry and the smell lingers too long. It's more likely to be a two part finish - which is probably the OPs best option. It's in a workplace, so someone at some time will abuse it. Guaranteed. :D
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By MikeG.
#1262763
rafezetter wrote:........If the OP had said "we've been asked to do XYZ, it's a bit of a departure from our normal work - and we would like some advice BEFORE accepting the work" I'd have given that advice, commercial venture or not, but I would have still suggested in future they do thier own research before coming here to get given an answer on a plate.......


I'm not disagreeing (or agreeing) with anything you've said, other than this (bolded). I think it perfectly legitimate to use this place as the starting point for research. Like you, though, I would expect to do the research before starting the work.