Joining solid oak worktops breadboard style.

[macca]

Against my better judgement I have decided to opt for oak tops in my new kitchen :roll:

This may have been discussed before, my apologies if it has and I've missed this particular method but here goes, my plan is to join the tops with floating tenons, say 5, front edge being tight fit and glued, the other 5 with some lateral movement and an expansion gap at the rear of the top to be covered by the upstand or tiling.

The kitchen is an L shape so only the one joint to consider. The corner is reasonably far from 90 degrees so if I were relying on just worktop bolts I think seasonal movement would introduce a weird twisting to the bolts and a generally unpredictable join.
I am also hoping the if the floating tenons (I'm thinking domino xl) were long enough and a reasonably snug fit top to bottom it should keep the join close to flush.

I have seen a few bad solid oak tops in recent years and its made me quite wary, visible bowing, cracking and recently a top where you could feel every stave was a lump or dip.

Really just looking for some advice and happy to go off in a different tangent entirely if its worked for you.

...but I would love an excuse to buy a domino XL that makes it seem like I'm doing the better half a favour so just tell me its a great idea :lol:

 

[MikeG.]

Have you got a router?



Right, then you don't need a domino.

 

[stuartpaul]

Firstly, - if it's against your better judgement then why? If you prefer laminate then surely go for that?

I've fitted a few oak worktops (purely DIY not a fitter) and have always sourced them from worktop express. Never had an problem with quality but I understand they have very good customer service if you have an issue.

For joints I simply use a few biscuits to aid the line up, couple of connecting bolts and then PVA. Bit of sanding to finish off. Never had any creep or other issues. I do always allow space at the rear for any movement and ensure the front is screwed with slotted brackets for the same reason.

For me one of the beauties of solid wood worktops is cutting for out of square corners is much easier (no chipping of the laminate!).

 

[macca]

don't get me wrong, I like oak worktops, I've just seen the problems that come up when they aren't fitted carefully, something I want to avoid in my own kitchen haha biscuits were my original plan, i was just after some input on using more substantial joinery such as tenons to control the movement of the joint.

No I don't need a domino but I certainly don't fancy 70mm mortises in oak end grain haha

 

[Jacob]

You get a better job if you just glue and butt boards, without floating tenons , dowels etc. But you have an alignment problem. One solution is to glue just one joint at a time. Say six boards wide, glue them into 3 sets of two, glue two sets to make one of four, glue on the last set to make up to 6. Sounds tedious but it makes life easier and there's always something else to do whilst waiting.
I'd avoid breadboard ends altogether.

 

[sploo]

Against my better judgement I have decided to opt for oak tops in my new kitchen :roll:

This may have been discussed before, my apologies if it has and I've missed this particular method but here goes, my plan is to join the tops with floating tenons, say 5, front edge being tight fit and glued, the other 5 with some lateral movement and an expansion gap at the rear of the top to be covered by the upstand or tiling.

The kitchen is an L shape so only the one joint to consider. The corner is reasonably far from 90 degrees so if I were relying on just worktop bolts I think seasonal movement would introduce a weird twisting to the bolts and a generally unpredictable join.
I am also hoping the if the floating tenons (I'm thinking domino xl) were long enough and a reasonably snug fit top to bottom it should keep the join close to flush.

I have seen a few bad solid oak tops in recent years and its made me quite wary, visible bowing, cracking and recently a top where you could feel every stave was a lump or dip.

Really just looking for some advice and happy to go off in a different tangent entirely if its worked for you.

...but I would love an excuse to buy a domino XL that makes it seem like I'm doing the better half a favour so just tell me its a great idea :lol:

If I understand correctly, and you're only asking about the (not quite) 90 degree joint between two worktops, then, in my experience - yes, tenons will help.

I installed oak worktops in our kitchen some years ago, and over time there was a bit of movement and cupping; such that the join line wasn't a completely seamless surface any more (you could feel a "ridge" if you skimmed the worktop joint with a hand).

When I did the same in our current kitchen (having moved a couple of years ago), I slipped three floating tenons (using a Domino DF700) into the joint. So far I've not experienced any visible movement, so I'm assuming the tenons are resisting it.

 

[macca]

sorry Jacob I think you misunderstood my question, I'm not making the worktop myself I have the worktops already, but thanks all the same.

I installed oak worktops in our kitchen some years ago, and over time there was a bit of movement and cupping; such that the join line wasn't a completely seamless surface any more (you could feel a "ridge" if you skimmed the worktop joint with a hand).

When I did the same in our current kitchen (having moved a couple of years ago), I slipped three floating tenons (using a Domino DF700) into the joint. So far I've not experienced any visible movement, so I'm assuming the tenons are resisting it.

Thanks Sploo, thats pretty much what I imagine happening, did you glue any of the tenons? I'm hoping that glueing the tenon at the front will help to control the movement. Did you seal the joint with anything? I've heard of people putting a bead of silicone in the joint but I can see that being an issue when I oil the top.

 

[sploo]

sorry Jacob I think you misunderstood my question, I'm not making the worktop myself I have the worktops already, but thanks all the same.

I installed oak worktops in our kitchen some years ago, and over time there was a bit of movement and cupping; such that the join line wasn't a completely seamless surface any more (you could feel a "ridge" if you skimmed the worktop joint with a hand).

When I did the same in our current kitchen (having moved a couple of years ago), I slipped three floating tenons (using a Domino DF700) into the joint. So far I've not experienced any visible movement, so I'm assuming the tenons are resisting it.

Thanks Sploo, thats pretty much what I imagine happening, did you glue any of the tenons? I'm hoping that glueing the tenon at the front will help to control the movement. Did you seal the joint with anything? I've heard of people putting a bead of silicone in the joint but I can see that being an issue when I oil the top.

Having had a rummage through some old photos, I found:

Looks as though I cut the domino mortices on the DF700 wide setting (to avoid constraining the worktop that would move across the grain in the joint). I didn't use any glue in the mortices/dominos, but looking at the photos I sealed all the edges using the same finish I used for the worktops (Osmo Wood Protector followed by Osmo Top Oil).

EDIT: Silicone in the joint is (IRC) for chipboard worktops that already have a foil or laminate finish; you can get colour matching silicones for some worktops.

 

[HOJ]

As you will need to buy a domino machine, you will also need some of these to join the worktop with:

 

[sploo]

As you will need to buy a domino machine, you will also need some of these to join the worktop with:

I'd just use normal worktop joining hardware (much cheaper, and likely stronger). The Festool hardware is (I believe) more for knock down furniture and displays.

 

[Racers]

On the ones I have done I oiled the tops and the joints then applied a thick coat of oil instead of glue, a couple of biscuits and worktop connectors and they still look good.

Pete

 

[Alex]

If you don't want your worktops cupping make sure you coat both sides of worktop. Under side best done before installation and at least 3 coats. Straight butt joint with worktop bolts and biscuits in long slots works best for 90' joint. Done loads including my own oak worktop all still good.
Ps Wipe away any liquids/water instantly . Oak is open pore wood even oiled it'll absorb.