Moderators: Random Orbital Bob, nev, Noel, Charley, CHJ

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By JohnPW
#1227606
I've notice this claim at the bottom on every page on UKWorkshop:

All written and photographic materials on this site (unless other wise stated) are © 2000-2012 UKWorkshop.co.uk
and may not be used, copied, or reproduced without written permission.


Presumably that does not apply to members' posts and photos?

If not, why not say so instead of "unless other wise stated"?
By Sideways
#1227628
The old internet adage applies - "If you're not paying for it, you're the product."
Assume that the site owner claims rights to anything you put on the internet even / unless you explicitly put a copyright statement on it.
Excuse me if I'm wrong and I have no issue with this site, but asserting and enforcing your copyright across the internet is no game for the faint hearted. If you are bothered about this, it's better not to put it out there in the first place. There are some very big sites that don't give a damn about your rights ....
By AES
#1227631
QUOTE: Presumably that does not apply to members' posts and photos? UNQUOTE:

I am by no means expert in this area, but I GUESS that members' posts and photos are EXACTLY what is meant (in other words, if he/she wanted to, the owner of this site COULD "sell" all the posts and pix on here to some one/where else). NOTE: I'm not talking about your address and private identity info.

I THINK I'm right in saying that when you write to a newspaper or magazine, your contribution then belongs to the owner of that mag or paper - to do with exactly as they wish.

But I do know for a fact that when I am paid by a magazine for contributing an article, unless I negotiate otherwise, "my" article then belongs solely to the magazine owner/publisher, and that they can (and often do in my experience) re publish that same article in another magazine and/or even in a book - all without any additional royalty payments to me, the original author.

"T'aint fair, but 'tis so" - as I say, unless I belong to a recognized authors' "union" or am represented by an agent, who will negotiate other "rights" on my behalf. Certainly, again in my experience, "hobby" magazines will not accept such revised "rights" terms.

Back to the internet generally, and to this Forum specifically. Why bother about this?

Regardless of whatever the small print may say, I believe that by "publishing" anything anywhere on the net I am in fact "publishing" in the public domain, so immediately when posted, even as the "author" of the post, I have no copyright protection whatsoever.

So what? Fo me my words are not particularly special, and I'm not trying to earn a living - or supplement a pension even - by writing here or anywhere else. So, who cares? But if you personally don't want your material "spread around" (and thereby have the possibility of someone else profiting from your own work) then don't post here - or anywhere else on the net! Simples.

I think the owner of this site has to claim copyright on all content on this site to protect himself from legal claims, so of course, he/she does just that.

I repeat, I am NO expert in this area, and my ventures into "professional" writing were A) some time back, and B) did not involve wood working, but other subjects, both "professional" and hobby". So the above may NOT be entirely correct now - "caveat emptor" and all that!
By AES
#1227632
My post coincided with Sideways' - but we're essentially singing from the same song sheet I think.

Edit for P.S. I also have no issues with this site - anyone's more than welcome to anything I post here - or anywhere else. I think that's the main (very high IMO) value of this site - a lot of people with all sorts of knowledge and experience do freely share that with other members - and therefore, if I'm right, automatically with anyone and everyone else.
User avatar
By AndyT
#1227641
From my (slight) knowledge of the area, I think all these statements are true:

* The words on the site, as quoted by the OP, are an interestingly bold assertion that has no legal foundation.

* Copyright in our own posts and photos naturally belongs to each of us by right. There is no need to "claim" or "register" it.

* We could choose to license use of our copyright material to someone else, such as the proprietor of this site. Regardless of any words on the site or in the site rules, I think that a judge would agree that's what we are all doing when we contribute.

* Even if the preceding statements ARE all true, in the real world our chances of enforcing our intellectual property rights over material we post here are Zero. Once it's online, all our nice legal rights are nothing better than fictional as there is no effective means of getting redress. So the sensible course is to accept that we should only post words and pictures where we don't mind what other people do with them.
User avatar
By custard
#1227656
I've been thinking a lot about this recently.

I'm spending several hours a week on this forum, but I'm only really concerned with the dozen or so people who are actively trying to improve as furniture makers.

The truth is there really aren't that many of them.

The great majority of the traffic seems to be more social in nature; a general chat along a broadly "woody" theme, but not much of it genuinely rooted in even semi-serious cabinet making. That's okay, no one is more entitled to be here than anyone else, and I guess it's just the nature of the internet. But I do wonder if, measured against an objective of doing one's bit to promote and encourage amateur furniture making, I'm wasting my time?

I'm sinking a fair bit of time posting photos in an attempt to clarify and explain certain points, but they quickly recede into the forum history (and of course very few people actively search before asking a question!), maybe it would make more sense to set up some kind of blog?
By dzj
#1227661
"I'm sinking a fair bit of time posting photos in an attempt to clarify and explain certain points, but they quickly recede into the forum history (and of course very few people actively search before asking a question!), maybe it would make more sense to set up some kind of blog?"

Go for it, Custard. I'd subscribe and I think most people here would too.
Judging by your posts, it would be an interesting read.
By Sideways
#1227664
Note to self- be a bit mor appreciative of the posts that I like on the forum.
It takes a little time to get to know peple in this "virtual" club just as it does in a real one. People are also at different stages of development so what they may talk about today doesn't mean they're uninterested in other stuff.
In my case I have no training in woodwork beyond a few classes at school but I aspire to make furniture for the house that will last longer than I will. It's taking a mighty long time to clear a lifetime's clutter out of the garage and make myself a useable workspace so I can get started :-(
You may find more of us are benefitting from your posts than you think Custard, and yes - I'd follow if you decided to blog ...
Cheers !
By profchris
#1227689
custard wrote:I've been thinking a lot about this recently.

I'm spending several hours a week on this forum, but I'm only really concerned with the dozen or so people who are actively trying to improve as furniture makers.

The truth is there really aren't that many of them.

The great majority of the traffic seems to be more social in nature; a general chat along a broadly "woody" theme, but not much of it genuinely rooted in even semi-serious cabinet making. That's okay, no one is more entitled to be here than anyone else, and I guess it's just the nature of the internet. But I do wonder if, measured against an objective of doing one's bit to promote and encourage amateur furniture making, I'm wasting my time?

I'm sinking a fair bit of time posting photos in an attempt to clarify and explain certain points, but they quickly recede into the forum history (and of course very few people actively search before asking a question!), maybe it would make more sense to set up some kind of blog?


I have no furniture plans, but have learnt a huge amount from your posts. Even when not directly applicable to what I do, they often inspire me to find an improvement to my own methods.

My own posts on musical instruments attempt to do the same thing - here's a technique I've found, maybe it might be useful in some way to others.

This cross-fertilisation seems very valuable.

If you focused on a blog I'd subscribe of course, but might miss things I'd notice here.
By profchris
#1227691
On the copyright notice:

(My academic field is the law relating to the internet so I work regularly with copyright)

The site terms say nothing about copyright. This means that we all retain copyright in the text and images we post - the site notice doesn't change that.

However, for reasons you don't want to know, copyright law gives the site owner (Charley) copyright in the *typographical arrangement* of each post. Essentially this means, the layout and combination of text and images.* So if someone printed up "Best of UK Workshop" as a book by copying this, he could sue them and so could each post writer.

So the notice is meaningful, and not a problem to us. However, I suspect it's really there because it was just copied from another site :)

* Footnote: there's an interesting academic article about what typographical arrangement means when each browser and device produces a different display, but I don't propose to write It!
User avatar
By Noel
#1227699
custard wrote:I've been thinking a lot about this recently.

I'm spending several hours a week on this forum, but I'm only really concerned with the dozen or so people who are actively trying to improve as furniture makers.

The truth is there really aren't that many of them.

The great majority of the traffic seems to be more social in nature; a general chat along a broadly "woody" theme, but not much of it genuinely rooted in even semi-serious cabinet making. That's okay, no one is more entitled to be here than anyone else, and I guess it's just the nature of the internet. But I do wonder if, measured against an objective of doing one's bit to promote and encourage amateur furniture making, I'm wasting my time?

I'm sinking a fair bit of time posting photos in an attempt to clarify and explain certain points, but they quickly recede into the forum history (and of course very few people actively search before asking a question!), maybe it would make more sense to set up some kind of blog?


If one person is learning or benefiting from your contributions then your job is done. So, nope, you're not wasting your time and long may you continue to contribute.
User avatar
By CHJ
#1227720
profchris wrote:
custard wrote:I've been thinking a lot about this recently.

I'm spending several hours a week on this forum, but I'm only really concerned with the dozen or so people who are actively trying to improve as furniture makers.

The truth is there really aren't that many of them.

The great majority of the traffic seems to be more social in nature; a general chat along a broadly "woody" theme, but not much of it genuinely rooted in even semi-serious cabinet making. That's okay, no one is more entitled to be here than anyone else, and I guess it's just the nature of the internet. But I do wonder if, measured against an objective of doing one's bit to promote and encourage amateur furniture making, I'm wasting my time?

I'm sinking a fair bit of time posting photos in an attempt to clarify and explain certain points, but they quickly recede into the forum history (and of course very few people actively search before asking a question!), maybe it would make more sense to set up some kind of blog?


I have no furniture plans, but have learnt a huge amount from your posts. Even when not directly applicable to what I do, they often inspire me to find an improvement to my own methods.

My own posts on musical instruments attempt to do the same thing - here's a technique I've found, maybe it might be useful in some way to others.

This cross-fertilisation seems very valuable.

If you focused on a blog I'd subscribe of course, but might miss things I'd notice here.

I think one of the biggest culprits causing a reduction in feedback and project discussion is the continuing insistence of members to keep posting in the Post the last thing you made"thread.
Discussion becomes very limited and often disjointed as comments relating to items get mixed up or rapidly get overtaken. There have been some very good pieces of work shown but there is very little chance of them being found in a forum search and followed up at a later date.
Why is there such a reluctance to start a new thread in "Projects" to show finished work and allow easier discussion and follow up comments?
User avatar
By Peter Sefton
#1227749
Custard your posts are always well informed and insightful it must take you some time to put your thoughts together.

I check the forum almost everyday but don't post so often these days. Not for any other reason than having enough hours in the day, with all the other "anti" social media and YouTube to keep up with.

If you enjoy posting keep it up, I find posting on FB or Insta quicker but again you would find a core will respond and comment although just like here I am sure plenty more are looking.

Cheers Peter
User avatar
By Newbie_Neil
#1227778
Hi Custard,

custard wrote:I'm spending several hours a week on this forum, but I'm only really concerned with the dozen or so people who are actively trying to improve as furniture makers.


I love reading your posts and have learnt so much from them. I really appreciate the time that you spend here and would be sorry to lose your input.

If you do go down the blog route, then I will follow you.

Thank you,

Neil