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By RogerS
#1306139
Trainee neophyte wrote:
RogerS wrote:TN...you've never had to 'play' the Great Carnet Game, have you ? Otherwise you'd understand the benefits of trading as a member of the EU.


No, I haven't. Took me a while to find out what it was, too. The good news is that, once you get your goods into the EU, it's in. Their single market works in your favour. Just the one big shiny border to play with.

How hard could it be?
Your point is what exactly?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
By Jacob
#1306141
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9902777/b ... n-ireland/
He really is an utter tw@@t :roll:
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-st ... -1-5727626
Unless it's all part of his cunning plan - to bull***t away until the moment when he pulls the covers off and reveals all
Last edited by Jacob on 12 Sep 2019, 13:55, edited 1 time in total.
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By RogerS
#1306142
Jacob wrote:You still haven't got it. Never mind.
Jacob posting policy.....When backed into a corner keep head in sand.

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By sploo
#1306148
finneyb wrote:eg In US 81% diagnosed with prostate cancer survives 5 years in UK 50% survive 5 years . Sounds like US is better but it isn't they screen for PSA as a surrogate of prostate cancer and therefore overdiagnosis. Don't forget prostate cancer is comes in two forms slow and fast. With slow you are likely to die from other causes but you still get included in the stats.

A factor there is litigation (my wife's worked in the US healthcare system). The fear of being sued for missing something means that US doctors will run many more tests than are (probably) statistically necessary - even tests that may be invasive and not particularly pleasant. At the end of the day it's all paid for on the insurance (and likely makes a profit for the hospital) so it's preferable to being taken to court because a patient turns out to have a one-in-a-million disease you (entirely reasonably) didn't test for.
By Jacob
#1306179
“Defeat was never part of the conversation. It never entered anyone’s calculations that Remain would lose. It was plain to everybody that Remain would win,” 
".........he spoke so memorably of Britain’s unique contribution to Europe – how it provided a haven to those fleeing tyranny and persecution, kept the flame of liberty alight in the continent’s darkest hour, sacrificed hundreds of thousands of its sons for the Continent’s freedom and helped tear down the Iron Curtain. “I never want us to pull up the drawbridge and retreat from the world.”
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/u ... ke-britain
By powertools
#1306187
Noel wrote:
powertools wrote:Noel.
I used to run a small business that also imported products from EU companies.
Are you actually saying that our member ship of the EU means that they have to sell to you?
I ask because that is not my experience .


Noel wrote:
Hi PT.

Essentially yes. The 4 main pillars of the original EEC/Common Market was free and uninhibited movements of goods, money, people and services. No borders, no barriers, no hassle. That was the original framework which still remains today.

In the case I mentioned (there are a couple of others too) I walked into a showroom in another member state, explained what I wanted to do and straight off the bat they said no. I asked why not, do you not want to do business? The person I was dealing with said he would love to but were forbidden to export the product out of their own market, that was the order from the country's importer/distributor. The UK had asked HQ in France/or HQ did not want to upset each particular market. I was told a similar tale from 2/3 other dealers.

In simple terms the EU sees things as:

While you are free to define your general terms and conditions of sale, including limitations on delivery, all your customers based in the EU must have the same access to goods as your local customers.



If you offer a special price, promotion or sales conditions, these should be accessible to all your customers irrespective of which EU country they are located in, their nationality, place of residence or business location.


That doesn't mean every business is forced to accept business from any random that walks off the street. If an individual seller is privately owned they can decide who they want to trade with without giving a reason. But if it is obvious or apparent that the only reason to refuse a sale is that the buyer is not local and that the product will be exported to another member state where the same product is also on sale than that is in breach of EU regulations. The seller also cannot up the price or place extended delivery etc or other things to discourage sales outside their local or country market. It was a company wide directive to every dealership so it was blatantly a restrictive practice.
It was a good result although things had moved on in the intervening 6 months or so that it took to make the manufacturer in France to see the error of their ways. I think I took some product from them but not a lot.
The whole thing took a couple hours of my time and cost not a penny (or a cent).


Powertools wrote:
Thank you for informed reply.
My experience is very different to yours.


Thanks PT. What was your experience and, if I may ask, what line of business were you in?


Thanks for your interest.
I used to run a small business dealing with both the professional motor trade and diy mechanics.
My story runs for about 20 years and would be impossible to explain on the forum .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so9gMxzJH4k
If my link to the yutube video has worked it should give you some idea of the things we used to do.
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By Trainee neophyte
#1306188
RogerS wrote:
Trainee neophyte wrote:
RogerS wrote:TN...you've never had to 'play' the Great Carnet Game, have you ? Otherwise you'd understand the benefits of trading as a member of the EU.


No, I haven't. Took me a while to find out what it was, too. The good news is that, once you get your goods into the EU, it's in. Their single market works in your favour. Just the one big shiny border to play with.

How hard could it be?
Your point is what exactly?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Given how cryptic "the great carnet game" is, it took me a while to find a reference to it. Turns out it was your reference, so I thought I might be on reasonably sound ground. If I have completely misunderstood, I apologise, as it is definitely outside of my usual line of work. From your earlier post (November 2016):

Rule 1 - Prior to leaving the UK you deposit a large sum of money with HMRC as security that you will actually be bringing back the equipment with you. You fill in a form detailing in minute detail what you are taking out. This is recorded on the Master form that you take with you and is checked at each point of entry and exit. In return you will get a box form and two sheets of paper per country being travelled through.

Rule 2 - As you leave the UK, you give up one of those pieces of paper and in return get a stamp in the box form.

Rule 3 - When you enter the next country on your route, you give up another piece of paper (the Entrance Form) and collect another stamp on the box form.

Rule 4 - As you leave that country, you give up another piece of paper (the Exit form) and collect another stamp.

And so on until finally

Last rule - you return to the UK and give up your last piece of paper and collect the last stamp.

You win if you have the correct number of stamps on the form as you get your money back.


My assumption(!) is that this no longer applies, as once inside the European common market, there are no additional checks. Of course, there are, and we all know that there are, but not at the border, so that's all right.

Feel free to put me right on the rules as they will apply next month - I am very much a beginner at The Great Carnet Game™©
By powertools
#1306192
It seems that my link has worked and it shows one of many items we developed.
The kit in the video included a lot of different parts some of witch I tried to buy from manufacturers within the EU but all seemed to think that they had already got the market to themselves and refused to sell to us.
We had tooling made and produced the main items in the kit with manufacturers in the UK it was not long after we put our kit to market that some of these large EU companies wanted to buy some of our items from us. We refused because we felt that we now had a market leading kit and the tooling we had had made due to cost was not able to produce enough items to supply anybody else.
It wasnt long after that we were told to stop selling the kit because some of these large companies had a patent on part of the kit. Our response was show us proof and we will stop and it turned out that they were just trying to scare us.
I could go on about many other items that we developed and sold but all I will say is that I dont think that our membership of the EU does not do anything to protect small bussines and help expansion.
By powertools
#1306197
I should also point out that the link to my video was not in anyway to promote my self, at 68 I no longer have any interest in trying to run a small business within or out of the EU and now spend my days walking the dog, gardening and woodwork.
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By RogerS
#1306230
Trainee neophyte wrote:
RogerS wrote:
Trainee neophyte wrote:No, I haven't. Took me a while to find out what it was, too. The good news is that, once you get your goods into the EU, it's in. Their single market works in your favour. Just the one big shiny border to play with.

How hard could it be?
Your point is what exactly?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Given how cryptic "the great carnet game" is, it took me a while to find a reference to it. Turns out it was your reference, so I thought I might be on reasonably sound ground. If I have completely misunderstood, I apologise, as it is definitely outside of my usual line of work. From your earlier post (November 2016):

Rule 1 - Prior to leaving the UK you deposit a large sum of money with HMRC as security that you will actually be bringing back the equipment with you. You fill in a form detailing in minute detail what you are taking out. This is recorded on the Master form that you take with you and is checked at each point of entry and exit. In return you will get a box form and two sheets of paper per country being travelled through.

Rule 2 - As you leave the UK, you give up one of those pieces of paper and in return get a stamp in the box form.

Rule 3 - When you enter the next country on your route, you give up another piece of paper (the Entrance Form) and collect another stamp on the box form.

Rule 4 - As you leave that country, you give up another piece of paper (the Exit form) and collect another stamp.

And so on until finally

Last rule - you return to the UK and give up your last piece of paper and collect the last stamp.

You win if you have the correct number of stamps on the form as you get your money back.


My assumption(!) is that this no longer applies, as once inside the European common market, there are no additional checks.


Correct

Trainee neophyte wrote:Of course, there are, and we all know that there are, but not at the border, so that's all right.


100% wrong. That's the whole point of trading in the EU....no borders. After Oct 31st or whenever we leave, who knows....

The one thing that is pretty certain is that it won't be as easy as it is now.
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By RogerS
#1306231
A fair point but I think that you let them steamroller over you and nothing at all todo with the EU...which actually would have worked in your favour had you pursued things...see below.
powertools wrote:It seems that my link has worked and it shows one of many items we developed.
The kit in the video included a lot of different parts some of witch I tried to buy from manufacturers within the EU but all seemed to think that they had already got the market to themselves and refused to sell to us.


They were not allowed to do that. See what Noel did in a similar situation. The EU was on your side. That you didn't use them is down to you, I'm afraid.

powertools wrote:We had tooling made and produced the main items in the kit with manufacturers in the UK it was not long after we put our kit to market that some of these large EU companies wanted to buy some of our items from us. We refused because we felt that we now had a market leading kit and the tooling we had had made due to cost was not able to produce enough items to supply anybody else.
It wasnt long after that we were told to stop selling the kit because some of these large companies had a patent on part of the kit. Our response was show us proof and we will stop and it turned out that they were just trying to scare us.


Nothing at all to do with the EU. Just normal commercial practice. But I know where you're coming from having had 'Cease and Desist' letters from Apple and British Leyland in another lifetime. Shame the EU wasn't around then TBH.

powertools wrote:I could go on about many other items that we developed and sold but all I will say is that I dont think that our membership of the EU does not do anything to protect small bussines and help expansion.


We'll have to disagree on that score.

PS Like the product ! =D>
By Jacob
#1306237
Just a passing thought. I'm sitting here reading Johnson's book on Churchill. It's very good, entertaining, witty, an easy read, informative, thoughtful even.
n.b. The critics don't rate it - they wouldn't back such an obvious tory tosseur and light weight old Etonian historian.
But there must be more to Johnson than the tedious terd we see before us. Clearly he is no Churchill - but he does seem to know his subject.
I'm still into the cunning plan, Mk 1; maybe his heavy emphasis on "no deal do or die" etc is just to reassure the swivel eyed loons that he is on the case 100% so that when he finally says "sorry chaps it's a dead duck" they will think "he tried his best.. etc.. etc.....revoke art 50 and live to fight another day.....Dunkirk spirit and all that"?
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/ ... on-winston
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By Trainee neophyte
#1306244
RogerS wrote:
Trainee neophyte wrote:
My assumption(!) is that this no longer applies, as once inside the European common market, there are no additional checks.


Correct

Trainee neophyte wrote:Of course, there are, and we all know that there are, but not at the border, so that's all right.


100% wrong. That's the whole point of trading in the EU....no borders. After Oct 31st or whenever we leave, who knows....

The one thing that is pretty certain is that it won't be as easy as it is now.


"100% wrong". Are you sure? I have been stopped, and searched, by customs agents on the outskirts of Milan, some god-forsaken carpark in the middle of France, at the port of Roscoffe, but not whilst queuing to get on a ferry, and the most amusing to me, driving from Innsbruck, Austria north into Germany: the border was closed, but every single vehicle was stopped and checked 2 miles inside Germany. All good Schengen nations allow freedom of movement, and then check the vehicles anyway. If is not at the border, it doesn't count. At least, that is my experience. However, the carnet thingie may be a completely different kettle of fish. Perhaps I just look deeply suspicious...
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By RogerS
#1306271
Trainee neophyte wrote:
RogerS wrote:Correct

Trainee neophyte wrote:Of course, there are, and we all know that there are, but not at the border, so that's all right.


100% wrong. That's the whole point of trading in the EU....no borders. After Oct 31st or whenever we leave, who knows....

The one thing that is pretty certain is that it won't be as easy as it is now.


"100% wrong". Are you sure? I have been stopped, and searched, by customs agents on the outskirts of Milan, some god-forsaken carpark in the middle of France, at the port of Roscoffe, but not whilst queuing to get on a ferry, and the most amusing to me, driving from Innsbruck, Austria north into Germany: the border was closed, but every single vehicle was stopped and checked 2 miles inside Germany. All good Schengen nations allow freedom of movement, and then check the vehicles anyway. If is not at the border, it doesn't count. At least, that is my experience. However, the carnet thingie may be a completely different kettle of fish. Perhaps I just look deeply suspicious...


You're confusing a mandatory system of checks (the carnet system) with random customs checks whih will occur regardless of whatever system is in place.