How much useable blade length on Veritas apron plane?

[PalmRoyale]

I'm looking to buy a small block plane and I think the Veritas apron plane will be a good fit for me (I have several other Veritas planes). However, I can't find any info about how much useable blade length the apron plane has before the end of the slot in the blade hits the screw in the body (maybe the adjuster will run out of threading before that happens?) Is there anyone here who happens to know?

(I've sent an e-mail to Veritas a week ago but still haven't gotten a reply.)

 

[Racers]

I am struggling to see why you need to know, if it's an A2 blade it will last a long time between sharpening so it would probably last a lifetime if not more speaking from personal experience from using a LN 62. And spare blades are available.

Pete

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

PR, I believe that there is 3/8" usable length. I have had the LN 103 for about 15 years, and have not used a a quarter of that in grinding and sharpening its blade.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[PalmRoyale]

I am struggling to see why you need to know

It's simple, really. I will re-grind the bevel to 30 degrees but I'm not going to put a micro bevel on it. I will make the full bevel 30 degrees. I sharpen free hand and need as much surface area as I can get for maximum stability during sharpening. By re-grinding the full bevel to 30 degrees you lose a lot of material and I want the most use out of a blade. Still struggling to see?

At Derek Cohen: Thank you for your answer. That was exactly what I was looking for. That's only 9.5 mm which isn't a whole lot considering I'm going to use it for my job. I imagine it will be similar for the Lie Nielsen 102. I like the Norris type adjuster better though so I'm going with the Veritas.

 

[custard]

I will re-grind the bevel to 30 degrees but I'm not going to put a micro bevel on it. I will make the full bevel 30 degrees. I sharpen free hand and need as much surface area as I can get for maximum stability during sharpening.

Free hand sharpening the full primary bevel on thick hard A2 steel with an awkward to hold small plane iron...well, that's not my idea of fun.

But hey, it's your fingers that'll be cramped and aching not mine, so you carry right on. But do let us know, after an hour or two of hard work when you finally managed to raise a burr, how it's working out for you!

 

[PalmRoyale]

Obviously I'm not going to re-grind the full bevel to 30 degrees by hand when it only takes a few minutes on a bench grinder. I only need to re-grind it once and from there on out I sharpen free hand. Do you people not have bench grinders in the UK?

I'm also not going with A2 when I can get the plane with a PM-V11 blade.

 

[iNewbie]

Obviously I'm not going to re-grind the full bevel to 30 degrees by hand when it only takes a few minutes on a bench grinder. I only need to re-grind it once and from there on out I sharpen free hand. Do you people not have bench grinders in the UK?

I'm also not going with A2 when I can get the plane with a PM-V11 blade.

Only for our coffee beans.

 

[bugbear]

Obviously I'm not going to re-grind the full bevel to 30 degrees by hand when it only takes a few minutes on a bench grinder. I only need to re-grind it once and from there on out I sharpen free hand. Do you people not have bench grinders in the UK?

I'm also not going with A2 when I can get the plane with a PM-V11 blade.

I suspect (since it makes much more sense) custard is referring to the subsequent day-to-day honing on such a large bevel surface.

BugBear

 

[John15]

For hand sharpening I register on the 25 deg. primary bevel then lift up a few degrees for the 30 deg. honing angle.

John

 

[PalmRoyale]

A2 or PM-V11 doesn't take long to sharpen if you use the right type of stone. A soft bond Aluminium Oxide 1000 or 1200 grit stone does the job in under a minute. Follow it up with a few strokes on a 5000 or 6000 grit stone and you're good to go in under 2 minutes.

Here's how I do it. First I grind a 30 degree angle on the full bevel (a full hollow grind). This way you start out with just 2 contact points, at the beginning and end of the bevel. This gives you a lot of stability and really speeds up sharpening. As you sharpen it on your sharpening stone those 2 contact points become larger. When they almost meet in the middle of the bevel I put the blade on the bench grinder to create a new almost full hollow grind. I stop just before it's a full hollow grind leaving 1 mm at the beginning and end of the bevel. This way I remove a minimum amount of material. I didn't explain it correctly but this is what I meant by re-grinding it once to 30 degrees and maximum contact area.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I don't see a problem with hollow grinding a blade, whether PM-V11 or A2, and freehanding honing on waterstones. I do this with all my bench planes. I have one LA block plane with a 25 degree bevel (for end grain) and another LA block plane with a 35 degree bevel (for bevelling and as a small smoother). I would have thought this to be very basic stuff. Why is it a surprise?

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[PalmRoyale]

I've been doing a hollow grind for as long as I'm a furniture maker, that's almost 15 years. In fact, I personally don't know any furniture maker, shipwright or carpenter who doesn't use a hollow grind.

 

[Jacob]

You don't need to regrind a bevel for free hand hand sharpening you just get stuck in and sharpen.
You start the slide across the stone at 30º but dip as you go so that material is taken off the back and slowly develops as a slightly rounded bevel. So the so called "primary" and "secondary" bevels are taken off in one action.
It's very easy and wastes least material - so your blade should last a lifetime.
Power grinding can be a problem with small blades - they overheat easily. Hollow grind makes this even more likely.

 

[PalmRoyale]

Power grinding can be a problem with small blades - they overheat easily. Hollow grind makes this even more likely.

That's why you always have a small container of water by the bench grinder so you can cool the steel.

 

[bridger]

Most of my bevels end up a little convex, especially as I progress on touch-up honings. I don't much care for hollow ground primary bevels and have developed a pretty good hand at grinding them flattish on the bench grinder.

But how you grind your primary bevel- hollow, flat or convex- has no bearing on blade life assuming you don't grind past the edge. Lowering the cutting angle could, as a thinner edge will wear faster, but I suspect that the OP will use this small plane with a low cutting angle for delicate cuts in his furniture work, and that blade longevity will be fine. And when he uses up the blade get a replacement. It's a tool not a museum piece.

 

[Jacob]

Power grinding can be a problem with small blades - they overheat easily. Hollow grind makes this even more likely.

That's why you always have a small container of water by the bench grinder so you can cool the steel.

Exactly. You have a container of water because of the high risk of over heating - which you don't get on linisher (though it's possible) and you can't get by free hand grinding on a stone.

It's very common but you wouldn't know a blade is overheated if the blueing has been honed off.
I reckon a lot of novices start out their woodworking lives with blades softened by over heating. At school and training later we were banned from using a bench grinder at all. Only a large diameter water bath grindstone was permitted if hand sharpening wasn't enough to rectify a damaged blade.

 

[Jacob]

I am struggling to see why you need to know

It's simple, really. I will re-grind the bevel to 30 degrees but I'm not going to put a micro bevel on it. I will make the full bevel 30 degrees. I sharpen free hand and need as much surface area as I can get for maximum stability during sharpening. By re-grinding the full bevel to 30 degrees you lose a lot of material and I want the most use out of a blade. Still struggling to see?........

Yes still struggling to see. :lol:
Why not just hone it as it is? In about 20 years you will have removed most of the 25º (?) "primary" bevel. No point in doing it immediately.

 

[PalmRoyale]

I suspect that the OP will use this small plane with a low cutting angle for delicate cuts in his furniture work

It will actually be an effective cutting angle of 42 degrees which I have always found to be a good all round angle. It's going to replace my old Stanley 102. When I got it the blade wasn't that long to begin with and now it's at the end of it's life. It's a good time to get another Veritas because their Norris style adjuster is just so good.

It's a tool not a museum piece.

That's right. It's a tool that will see a lot of use almost every day.

 

[nev]

I am struggling to see why you need to know

It's simple, really. I will re-grind the bevel to 30 degrees but I'm not going to put a micro bevel on it. I will make the full bevel 30 degrees. I sharpen free hand and need as much surface area as I can get for maximum stability during sharpening. By re-grinding the full bevel to 30 degrees you lose a lot of material and I want the most use out of a blade. Still struggling to see?........

Yes still struggling to see. :lol:
Why not just hone it as it is? In about 20 years you will have removed most of the 25º (?) "primary" bevel. No point in doing it immediately.

Please STOP.

The OP asked a question about the size of a blade, NOT how to sharpen it. The mans been making furniture for 15 years so we can assume he knows how to sharpen a blade. On the vague chance that his methods do not meet the 'only way to sharpen', its still irrelevant - he didn't ask opinions on sharpening.

Mr PalmRoyale I apologise for the digression.

 

[PalmRoyale]

Mr PalmRoyale I apologise for the digression.

Isn't that what internet forums are for? For hijacking threads :lol:

As for the way I sharpen my blades... well, we all have our own method and we all usually arrive at the same result. A hollow grind followed by free hand sharpening is how it was taught to me. It's a quick and easy way and it has served me well during the past 15 years. I will stick with it if that's okay with you guys. Please, can I continue to use this method? I hope you say yes because I wouldn't know what to do if you say no.