MikeG.
Established Member
You're reaping the rewards now, DBT85, of having supported your formwork so well. The edge of the concrete is making a really neat junction with the brickwork, showing that it's straight (and in the right place).
DBT85s Workshop - Moved in and now time to fit it out
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DBT85
Established Member
Got to stop by the hire shop today, what flavour nails will I need for the framework? 90mm ring shank?
MikeG.
Established Member
Are you nailing manually (ie without a nail gun?). If so, then 4" hot-dipped galvanised is traditional, and probably a load cheaper than the ring shanked nails. Certainly experiment with a pilot hole for those nails near the ends of plates.
AJB Temple
Finely figured
You will save yourself a lot of arm ache if you have access to a first fix nail gun. That said, I nail by hand for fencing and garden stuff, though I do use a second fix gun quite a lot.
Excellent brickwork. You have inspired me to have another go!
Excellent brickwork. You have inspired me to have another go!
MikeG.
Established Member
I built a couple of houses nailing by hand. (I sawed the timbers by hand, too!). Then I bought a nail gun, and the difference is huge. The big thing for me was that with a nail gun you line the timbers up and then pull a trigger. The timbers stay together in the same location as when you lined them up. With a hammer, every time you hit the nail, the timbers move, so lining up studs, particularly at a corner, was a real faff.
These days, if I didn't have a nail gun I'd probably screw framing. Screws are much more expensive than nails, but not as expensive as hiring or buying a compressor and a nail gun. Reisser Cutter-type screws which drill their own hole, 80 or 90mm long, and a decent cordless driver with 2 good batteries and a pack of spare bits........
These days, if I didn't have a nail gun I'd probably screw framing. Screws are much more expensive than nails, but not as expensive as hiring or buying a compressor and a nail gun. Reisser Cutter-type screws which drill their own hole, 80 or 90mm long, and a decent cordless driver with 2 good batteries and a pack of spare bits........
Lons
Established Member
Exactly what AJB and Mike said.
I was using my gun on Saturday to put up fencing even though I have large boxes of ordinary galvs. 90mm for the rails and 50mm for the boards all galv r/s. Another bonus apart from accurate positioning is that the nails are less likely to spit the wood.
My original Paslode 350 was pretty good and fired many thousands of nails but tbh it was a pain having to constantly clean the darn thing as well as being temperamental in cold weather, I also found it sometimes had a hissy fit if I used non Paslode but much cheaper nails the replacement DeWalt 18v is superb and does everything I ask of it and with any brand nails of the right type.
It's a great excuse to buy one especially if you think ahead to potential other jobs and the time you could save.
I was using my gun on Saturday to put up fencing even though I have large boxes of ordinary galvs. 90mm for the rails and 50mm for the boards all galv r/s. Another bonus apart from accurate positioning is that the nails are less likely to spit the wood.
My original Paslode 350 was pretty good and fired many thousands of nails but tbh it was a pain having to constantly clean the darn thing as well as being temperamental in cold weather, I also found it sometimes had a hissy fit if I used non Paslode but much cheaper nails the replacement DeWalt 18v is superb and does everything I ask of it and with any brand nails of the right type.
It's a great excuse to buy one especially if you think ahead to potential other jobs and the time you could save.
Sheptonphil
Scrumpy junkie
I bought a paslode 350 just for the build and I will sell it afterwards. I have used it at every stage and on a built like this I think it’s going to be hard work And a lot less accurate without one.
I used 90mm for the framing, 51mm to fix the OSB (every six inches is a LOT of nails), 63mm to add the counter battens and all the roofing battens.
You not only have the benefit of instant fix with a single pull, the noise is less intrusive, one bang instead of five or six for each nail, You’re not smashing the framework about with every strike.
As your build may be two or three months and you cam really do with it on hand the whole time, it will be horrendously expensive for two months hire. A gas gun means no air lines to drag around and no compressor. Dewalt also make an 18v one I considered. 63mm nails are £36 for 3300 inc three gas canisters.
As a guide, I’ve used approx 1100 X 51mm, 1900 X 63mm and 2000 x 90mm
I don’t regret the investment, and will get most of it back when I sell.
I used 90mm for the framing, 51mm to fix the OSB (every six inches is a LOT of nails), 63mm to add the counter battens and all the roofing battens.
You not only have the benefit of instant fix with a single pull, the noise is less intrusive, one bang instead of five or six for each nail, You’re not smashing the framework about with every strike.
As your build may be two or three months and you cam really do with it on hand the whole time, it will be horrendously expensive for two months hire. A gas gun means no air lines to drag around and no compressor. Dewalt also make an 18v one I considered. 63mm nails are £36 for 3300 inc three gas canisters.
As a guide, I’ve used approx 1100 X 51mm, 1900 X 63mm and 2000 x 90mm
I don’t regret the investment, and will get most of it back when I sell.
AJB Temple
Finely figured
I 100% agree with Mike re using screws. I also use Reisser (bought in trade quantities) and pop them in with a driver. I also use Timberfix bolts a lot, again driven in with a driver and hex bolt thing which usually comes with a box of bolts. I will always do this in preference to nails in buildings as I think it a) does a better job and b) is reversible.
I have a DeWalt pair of electric mail guns, first and second fix. Unfortunately first fix has resided with No 1 offspring for the past year. Both are very good. I used to have paslode too, but it was stolen and I went electric after that. The batteries will drive a LOT of nails.
I have a DeWalt pair of electric mail guns, first and second fix. Unfortunately first fix has resided with No 1 offspring for the past year. Both are very good. I used to have paslode too, but it was stolen and I went electric after that. The batteries will drive a LOT of nails.
Chunky Monkey
Established Member
I stopped using Reisser Cutter screws on outdoor projects as I found they rusted heavily then the heads would snap off if I was to ever need to remove the screw.
Obviously not a problem inside a workshop build.
Jon
Obviously not a problem inside a workshop build.
Jon
AJB Temple
Finely figured
Not had that issue so far but as I said I mainly use Timberfix on buildings. Did you find something better instead Chunky Monkey?
Sheptonphil
Scrumpy junkie
I also used a lot of hex head timber screws for assembly of the panels and brackets, too expensive to use as a construction method for framing, but they would be no good for the OSB, nails are perfect, and gun driven ones at that. There will also be the cladding, I will use 500-600 51mm ones on that, paslode to the rescue again.AJB Temple":9hrdlrhl said:
As you know, the ring shank don’t like being pulled out, so make for a really strong frame construction.
DBT85
Established Member
Oh chaps I'll definitely be using a gun and not a hammer (hammer) .
I'm all about taking on absurd projects that make me learn loads of new skills and cost me thousands of pounds, but I'm not crazy enough to frame it with a hammer!
I've told the hire place I want one for Thursday, but I could well buy one as sheptonphil did. It was something I thought about before though I'd have no idea which to get. The plan was to get the bulk of the 90mm nails in in a weeks hire (hire costs come out of someone elses pocket!), but there are a lot of battens and OSB to bang up too so buying one might be prudent for now. What one did you get Phil?
If I'm using a gun, is there a flavour of nail I want or are all the 90mm first fix gun nails basically the same thing?
Anyway, brickwork was undertaken...eventually. I had to spend a hour trying to find the bolt cutters to release it from it's prison on the farm. I found them right where I left them (and was SURE I hadn't left them) by the farm gate when I opened it up to allow the concrete mixer into the field.
Once carted up and got going it seemed to go ok, though it's rather large for the batches I'm making up, but they did seem to last better and work better. My 6kg of cement and appropriate sand seemed a little lost inside, despite being triple my bucket mix. I was at least able to get some going before I broke for lunch and again while finishing the last of that batch off, so less time was lost arsing about.
150 odd laid today in the end, less than I'd hoped and as always 1 brick left as the mortar ran out (though had I not chucked 1/4 a load on the floor trying to pour it out of the mixer...). My perps were all over the place and I had to cut 10mm off a brick to make a course fit in the end. I'm going to have to do the same to the one that remains in that same wall. I'm going to blame the bricks being 216mm instead of the standard 215mm, instead of my ineptitude.
To make matters worse, the second course on the window side started out fine, but because I knew I had to make some snug perps at the far end of the first course, I started doing it early. It wasn't long before I'm no longer close to a proper stretcher bond. Mike, if he'd been daft enough to have done it would likely have ripped them out. My body burning in pain and annoyance made me just carry on. While being appropriately annoyed I glanced over at the other side completed this morning and noticed that 2 sodding bricks are face side in!
Fortunately its on the back side of the shop, and will perhaps one day get covered by a DX cabinet should I get around to it.
Tomorrow I can start a bit earlier as I no longer need to locate some bolt cutters. I have about 50 bricks to do and then 21 blocks to cleft in twain and then try and do those too.
I still need to buy some cut end treatment and I'm also not looking forward to trying to bed 2 7m long bits of 4x2 onto a DPC and some mortar.
Just the one pic today
FUUUUUU I've just noticed a third brick. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
I'm all about taking on absurd projects that make me learn loads of new skills and cost me thousands of pounds, but I'm not crazy enough to frame it with a hammer!
I've told the hire place I want one for Thursday, but I could well buy one as sheptonphil did. It was something I thought about before though I'd have no idea which to get. The plan was to get the bulk of the 90mm nails in in a weeks hire (hire costs come out of someone elses pocket!), but there are a lot of battens and OSB to bang up too so buying one might be prudent for now. What one did you get Phil?
If I'm using a gun, is there a flavour of nail I want or are all the 90mm first fix gun nails basically the same thing?
Anyway, brickwork was undertaken...eventually. I had to spend a hour trying to find the bolt cutters to release it from it's prison on the farm. I found them right where I left them (and was SURE I hadn't left them) by the farm gate when I opened it up to allow the concrete mixer into the field.
Once carted up and got going it seemed to go ok, though it's rather large for the batches I'm making up, but they did seem to last better and work better. My 6kg of cement and appropriate sand seemed a little lost inside, despite being triple my bucket mix. I was at least able to get some going before I broke for lunch and again while finishing the last of that batch off, so less time was lost arsing about.
150 odd laid today in the end, less than I'd hoped and as always 1 brick left as the mortar ran out (though had I not chucked 1/4 a load on the floor trying to pour it out of the mixer...). My perps were all over the place and I had to cut 10mm off a brick to make a course fit in the end. I'm going to have to do the same to the one that remains in that same wall. I'm going to blame the bricks being 216mm instead of the standard 215mm, instead of my ineptitude.
To make matters worse, the second course on the window side started out fine, but because I knew I had to make some snug perps at the far end of the first course, I started doing it early. It wasn't long before I'm no longer close to a proper stretcher bond. Mike, if he'd been daft enough to have done it would likely have ripped them out. My body burning in pain and annoyance made me just carry on. While being appropriately annoyed I glanced over at the other side completed this morning and noticed that 2 sodding bricks are face side in!
Fortunately its on the back side of the shop, and will perhaps one day get covered by a DX cabinet should I get around to it.
Tomorrow I can start a bit earlier as I no longer need to locate some bolt cutters. I have about 50 bricks to do and then 21 blocks to cleft in twain and then try and do those too.
I still need to buy some cut end treatment and I'm also not looking forward to trying to bed 2 7m long bits of 4x2 onto a DPC and some mortar.
Just the one pic today
FUUUUUU I've just noticed a third brick. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Sheptonphil
Scrumpy junkie
I bought a new Paslode 350i from eBay for £350. New they are usually£450+ so I think I can sell it for £300+ after I finish with it. I get the quickload nail packs from Supafixings, or same company on eBay if easier. All nails I use here are ring shank galvanised, and just about all the first fix guns use the same nails. I bought a 1100 pack of each to start with, but soon realised a 3300 pack is the way to go. Had I not got the bargain, I think I would have got the Dewalt battery one as all my cordless are Dewalt so would only need a bare unit.DBT85":1d29yjpn said:
You will find you will be constantly using it. (or wanting to use it if you haven’t got one on site). Framing, sheathing, counter battens, roof battens, cladding, door linings, are spread over the build time. If someone else is picking the hire tab up, that is the cheapest option for you, hire it for a couple of months.
The walls look superb, a brilliant first outing with a trowel. You know you’re going to knock those three bricks out don’t you? They will always be there, looking at you, smiling.
I’ve got to ask, why are you putting another 50mm of block internally? The stud walls are built onto the bricks aren’t they?
DBT85
Established Member
Oh the third one is definitely coming out. The other two can stay.
Yhe idea for the block is to set the studs back a fraction meaning that the cladding comes down and sits nicely on the brickwork rather than sticking out over it by 50mm or so.
I did look at the dewalt this evening but I have none of their kit, not that that would be a major issue of course. I guess it might be sensible.
Yhe idea for the block is to set the studs back a fraction meaning that the cladding comes down and sits nicely on the brickwork rather than sticking out over it by 50mm or so.
I did look at the dewalt this evening but I have none of their kit, not that that would be a major issue of course. I guess it might be sensible.
Sheptonphil
Scrumpy junkie
DBT85":1dzjhi5t said:
Ah, the blocks make sense now.
If you haven’t already got Dewalt kit, you need to get one with a battery (or two) and a charger. Bare units have neither.
MikeG.
Established Member
DBT85":31kikndc said:
Why not? It's a doddle of a job. You staple the dpc to the underside of the 4x2, lay out your mortar bed, sit the wood on there, and start tapping until it's level. Your choice as to whether you house out for straps before or after, but if you do it before you can fasten the plates down immediately and leave it alone until you come to erect the frames. You can butt joint the the loins, or have a little play with scarf joints.
DBT85":23xo6uag said:
Buy the kit of two nailers two batteries and a charger, Roughly 550 quid but they're really good. You can use the brad mailer then for architraves and trims etc too plus you'll get a good resale value.
If you don't want to get a nailer, Timco screws are really good, and a lot cheaper than reisser/spax. It's not too much slower doing it with an impact driver compared to a nailer and definitely easier to be accurate.
DBT85
Established Member
I had a look at the dewalt 18v one last night. £440 for it the box and 2 5ah batteries.
Talking it over with father in law as to whether we buy it to sell it when. I'm done or buy a cheaper one to just keep.
I don't have the funds to just buy one to keep and oddly we don't have a compressor here. Though I'd prefer to work without the hose anyway.
Talking it over with father in law as to whether we buy it to sell it when. I'm done or buy a cheaper one to just keep.
I don't have the funds to just buy one to keep and oddly we don't have a compressor here. Though I'd prefer to work without the hose anyway.
