Taking a plunge to kitchen cabinet making

[tomatwark]

It will depend on the quantity and also the colour you are going for.

If it is white it will be cheaper than the wood grains, also if it is a popular one which the supplier sells a lot of, it makes a difference as well, so is worth asking for an alternative if they do not have the colour you are wanting in stock.

The bigger firms will have more choice as they will possibly have the colour you want at another depot.

You need to remember that these are not 8 x 4 sheets and are a pain to handle if you do not have the space, it may be worth getting the parts cut to size, as although it will put the price up it will save a lot of time and hassle, if you do not have the kit to cut them easily.

A track saw will do it but it is hard work and even for a bespoke kitchen you will have a lot of bits the same size such as the ends.

 

[memzey]

Good point on the size of the sheets. I do have a plunge saw and am well set up for working on 4’x8’ boards but MFC might be a bit too big and cumbersome. It will be either getting the panels cut to size for me or back to MDF/ply. I’m leaning towards MDF/ply I think (I inherently distrust chipboard).

 

[tomatwark]

In my old workshop I could not get them full size through the door, so I either did the first cut outside with a track saw, or more often then not got my supplier to rip 600mm down the length, the 600mm would then be cut into ends, it also made handling them easier on my own.

Now I have staff and a lot bigger workshop and kit we can handle them easily.

 

[doctor Bob]

You could do that, but how do you attach them? I wouldn't be happy screwing into chipboard.

Buscuits, dominos, splines, lamello clicks, pocket holes, endless way of fixing.

Into carcasses made from chipboard? To fix face frames from which doors will be hung? Not my idea of quality work.

OK I give up, 20 odd years of making kitchens and I'm doing it wrong as are mark wilkinson, smallbone, tom Howley, martin moore etc etc we are also using the wrong fridges.......... mind, you have built you're own kitchen so you must be the expert.

 

[SteveF]

i had a mad thought about face frame fixing
how about aluminium angle attached to the face frame at the back
then just screw to inside of cab, or outside if possible
would make a nice clean opening inside

I have seen them attached with small angle brackets...which was pretty nasty
I have not had the forward planning to pocket hole my cabinets prior to installing (school boy error)
and i would rather not brad them, and would like the option to remove if they get damaged
Steve

 

[Sgian Dubh]

OK I give up, 20 odd years of making kitchens and I'm doing it wrong as are ...

If you keep at it a bit longer Bob, you might even be able to put together something that's passable. Don't give up just yet .. it'll come. Slainte.

 

[SteveF]

having seen the work Bob turns out,all I can say is wow
I am fairly confident he knows what he is talking about

Steve

 

[thomashenry]

Buscuits, dominos, splines, lamello clicks, pocket holes, endless way of fixing.

Into carcasses made from chipboard? To fix face frames from which doors will be hung? Not my idea of quality work.

OK I give up, 20 odd years of making kitchens and I'm doing it wrong as are mark wilkinson, smallbone, tom Howley, martin moore etc etc we are also using the wrong fridges.......... mind, you have built you're own kitchen so you must be the expert.

No-one is questioning your credentials, after all, you never miss the chance to tell us you've been doing this 20 years. You obviously know exactly what you are doing, and have many many happy customers, and your stuff looks beautiful.

But it's not about right or wrong. It's just that in my personal opinion, both as a woodworker and a customer, chipboard is not a high quality material, and if I was paying top dollar for a bespoke kitchen from a company like Tom Howley, I'd be pretty disappointed if I got something made out plastic coated chipboard with face frames biscuited to the front. It's just not what I think of as quality work.

Regrading the dig about fridges - if there is a way to install a door-on-door integrated fridge to a cabinet with inset doors hung on butt hinges - I'd be genuinely interested to know how it's done. To me it seems impossible. If you want to hang your cabinet door on butt hinges, sliders are the only way I can fathom.

 

[tomatwark]

There is nothing wrong with MFC, the problem is that a company called MFI used it from the 70's on, with poor design and also poor fittings.

This gave it a bad reputation

Moving on 40 years if you buy a good quality MFC it is light years apart, and also the quality and design of the fittings is far better.

I am not saying all MFC kitchens are good, but it depends how you use it in the build.

Your average customer is not going to want to repaint or revarnish the insides of the units once finish gets marked, and MFC also is better to keep clean.

But maybe the likes of Bob, me and the rest of the industry should start using WBP ply and paint it, if it is such a high quality way of doing things.

We do use a lot of ply for painted bits, such as open shelves, door panels etc, but I would never use such an inferior quality ply as WBP and always use Birch Ply.

 

[tomatwark]

i had a mad thought about face frame fixing
how about aluminium angle attached to the face frame at the back
then just screw to inside of cab, or outside if possible
would make a nice clean opening inside

I have seen them attached with small angle brackets...which was pretty nasty
I have not had the forward planning to pocket hole my cabinets prior to installing (school boy error)
and i would rather not brad them, and would like the option to remove if they get damaged
Steve

Steve

If you have room for angle just run up a square piece of wood say 15 mm x 15 mm paint it the same colour as the frame and screw that to the inside of the frame and unit.

This is what I design, if there is a need in a kitchen design for the frame to have to be removed, say for access to pipes if something goes wrong.

 

[thomashenry]

There is nothing wrong with MFC, the problem is that a company called MFI used it from the 70's on, with poor design and also poor fittings.

This gave it a bad reputation

Moving on 40 years if you buy a good quality MFC it is light years apart, and also the quality and design of the fittings is far better.

I am not saying all MFC kitchens are good, but it depends how you use it in the build.

Your average customer is not going to want to repaint or revarnish the insides of the units once finish gets marked, and MFC also is better to keep clean.

But maybe the likes of Bob, me and the rest of the industry should start using WBP ply and paint it, if it is such a high quality way of doing things.

We do use a lot of ply for painted bits, such as open shelves, door panels etc, but I would never use such an inferior quality ply as WBP and always use Birch Ply.

You should do whatever your customers are happy with - no issues with that. But if I was a customer, I wouldn't pay good money for things made out of plastic faced chipboard.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Thomas, You'll no doubt have heard the adage 'If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging'.

It might, at this point, be worth keeping that adage in mind, ha, ha. Slainte.

 

[thomashenry]

Thomas, You'll no doubt have heard the adage 'If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging'.

It might, at this point, be worth keeping that adage in mind, ha, ha. Slainte.

In a hole because I don't think chipboard cabinets are worthy of high quality work? I doubt I'm the only one in that particular hole.

 

[Doug71]

When I made my kitchen I used veneered ply and veneered mdf with plenty of coats of varnish for the insides, thought I was making a really good job. Now a few years on it looks scruffy and needs re finishing, if I did it again I would use MFC.

 

[doctor Bob]

I make carcases out of ply, birch ply, veneered birch ply, solid timber, I'd even make them out of Rhinocerous scrotums if the customer wanted it and I could source it. However I also make them out of MFC.
There is absolutely no compromise in the strength of the unit, they are fixed cabinets they never move.
You do not understand the product or how the cabinets are constucted. No the pineapple door will not pull off, no the pineapple carcase will not just disintergrate for no reason. The carcase is less likely to scratch compared to veneers, ply etc.
I really can't be bothered to answer the fridge question as I know you would tell me it's not your idea of doing a quality fitted fridge.

 

[tomatwark]

Bob
Rhinocerous scrotums, a customer only asked this morning for their cabinets to made from them :lol:

At the end of the day it is what the customer wants, I suspect Bob, like myself will advised the customer of the pros and cons of each material and then go with their choice.

 

[Nelsun]

^^Very shoddy and will never last (making doors and carcases out of pineapples) (homer)

 

[tomatwark]

There is nothing wrong with MFC, the problem is that a company called MFI used it from the 70's on, with poor design and also poor fittings.

This gave it a bad reputation

Moving on 40 years if you buy a good quality MFC it is light years apart, and also the quality and design of the fittings is far better.

I am not saying all MFC kitchens are good, but it depends how you use it in the build.

Your average customer is not going to want to repaint or revarnish the insides of the units once finish gets marked, and MFC also is better to keep clean.

But maybe the likes of Bob, me and the rest of the industry should start using WBP ply and paint it, if it is such a high quality way of doing things.

We do use a lot of ply for painted bits, such as open shelves, door panels etc, but I would never use such an inferior quality ply as WBP and always use Birch Ply.

You should do whatever your customers are happy with - no issues with that. But if I was a customer, I wouldn't pay good money for things made out of plastic faced chipboard.

I certainly would not pay good money for a bit of WBP ply with a coat of Dulux

 

[thomashenry]

I make carcases out of ply, birch ply, veneered birch ply, solid timber, I'd even make them out of Rhinocerous scrotums if the customer wanted it and I could source it. However I also make them out of MFC.
There is absolutely no compromise in the strength of the unit, they are fixed cabinets they never move.
You do not understand the product or how the cabinets are constucted. No the pineapple door will not pull off, no the pineapple carcase will not just disintergrate for no reason. The carcase is less likely to scratch compared to veneers, ply etc.
I really can't be bothered to answer the fridge question as I know you would tell me it's not your idea of doing a quality fitted fridge.

I have a personal dislike of chipboard and don't think it has a place in high quality work. It's hardly the most controversial opinion out there, and it's certainly not a personal attack on you. I've no doubt that you know exactly what you are doing and do great work. My dislike and disdain for chipboard is not a personal attack on you.

The fridge door question could be useful to answer for others in the thread. Earlier in the thread, someone asked about how to install an integreated fridge into a face frame cabinet, and I (helpfully I thought) showed a diagram of how to do it with a door hung on butt hinges a and sliding mechanism. Obviously its also easy to do this with a door on door fridge, but I see no way to still have the cabinet door hung on butt hinges. As far as I can see, you have to forgo the hinges.

 

[doctor Bob]

I'm doing a kitchen in MFC at the moment, £220 a sheet rustic oak.
If i gave you a piece and it was edged all round you wouldn't know it was MFC, looks like a 200 year old oak floor. Deep grain, knots, distressed amazing.
Tech move forward, even chip knew that hence his use of veneers.