Surfboard build WIP
- Thread starter Chris152
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
Thanks Horsee, we're really enjoying the build and I'm looking forward to starting the next one!
Looking much better than it was yesterday morning - the finish is more level (less watery, if you know what I mean?!), not quite as shiny but we've (I've) decided to stop here rather than move to another compound:
As I read about and watched vids of final sanding and polishing, I realised it seemed less about woodwork and surfboards, more about automotive finishes, and thought it'd be a good idea to visit a friend who deals in classic cars. When I got there this morning, one of them was in the process of cutting back the paint on a car - he showed me how to do it on the car and on the tail of our board, and I left with 2000 and 3000 g soft-backed discs and buffing disc for my ros and a tube of G3 (couldn't find G4 on the Farécla site, and only larger quantities on ebay - maybe they're not making it any more? G3, G6 and G10).
Very pleased with the way it's looking now, on to routing for the fin box next. #-o
Looking much better than it was yesterday morning - the finish is more level (less watery, if you know what I mean?!), not quite as shiny but we've (I've) decided to stop here rather than move to another compound:
As I read about and watched vids of final sanding and polishing, I realised it seemed less about woodwork and surfboards, more about automotive finishes, and thought it'd be a good idea to visit a friend who deals in classic cars. When I got there this morning, one of them was in the process of cutting back the paint on a car - he showed me how to do it on the car and on the tail of our board, and I left with 2000 and 3000 g soft-backed discs and buffing disc for my ros and a tube of G3 (couldn't find G4 on the Farécla site, and only larger quantities on ebay - maybe they're not making it any more? G3, G6 and G10).
Very pleased with the way it's looking now, on to routing for the fin box next. #-o
Attachments
novocaine
Established Member
same process as a car. g3 is fine, quite likely that g4 isn't available anymore. I don't do much these days and definitely not on any real scale so I tend to use scratch remover or a wax held compound on a buffer wheel. I'm planning to varnish my guitar kit build so will be buffering that out by hand.
looks awesome, but I've said this enough times now. get a fin on it and get it in the water, before you wave bye bye to the rubbish weather and hello to the really rubbish weather.
looks awesome, but I've said this enough times now. get a fin on it and get it in the water, before you wave bye bye to the rubbish weather and hello to the really rubbish weather.
The weather gets bad, but the swell gets better - we've got the remnants of Dorian arriving the end of the week!
Ok, last questions (we all hope), if I may.
What kind of router bit do I need to rout for the fin box? I have use of a 1/4" plunge router, all (3 of) my bits just cut edges - it needs to plunge then cut along. And what diameter bit can I go for? I was planning to do 5mm depth passes, working to the depth of the box (some will be cut off the height of the box after fitting) and then a little depth for resin.
And finally, how much gap do you think I need for the resin under and around the box, leash plug and vent?
Thanks.
Ok, last questions (we all hope), if I may.
What kind of router bit do I need to rout for the fin box? I have use of a 1/4" plunge router, all (3 of) my bits just cut edges - it needs to plunge then cut along. And what diameter bit can I go for? I was planning to do 5mm depth passes, working to the depth of the box (some will be cut off the height of the box after fitting) and then a little depth for resin.
And finally, how much gap do you think I need for the resin under and around the box, leash plug and vent?
Thanks.
novocaine
Established Member
2 options. hog out the waste with a suitable drill bit then use a template and a guide bush. 2 use a dado bit with a template. 3. use a top bearing cutter and a template. I'd still take out as much of it as possible with a drill, also, masking tape and super glue to hold the template down.
I'd be leaving more room than needed, you can always add a packer to take up the space if needed. 1mm all round maybe.
I'd be leaving more room than needed, you can always add a packer to take up the space if needed. 1mm all round maybe.
Looking at routing options, is this an alternative to using a guide bush in the template?
(http://sliverpaddleboards.com/paddleboa ... a-fin-box/ - from Silver paddle boards)
The edge of the base runs around the inside edge of the frame?
I'm asking because the plunge router I had use of sounds awful (rattling) and I don't fancy using it. I can get a plunge attachment for my Katsu router by tomorrow, but as far as I can see it doesn't have an option to attach the guide bush (or at least, not the de walt bushes we have - so that'd mean more expense).
(http://sliverpaddleboards.com/paddleboa ... a-fin-box/ - from Silver paddle boards)
The edge of the base runs around the inside edge of the frame?
I'm asking because the plunge router I had use of sounds awful (rattling) and I don't fancy using it. I can get a plunge attachment for my Katsu router by tomorrow, but as far as I can see it doesn't have an option to attach the guide bush (or at least, not the de walt bushes we have - so that'd mean more expense).
Attachments
novocaine
Established Member
Yep, that'll work.
I use my Katsu for this sort of thing all the time. normally with a bearing bit, but I've done like you show before for a book slot on a project. Start with router tilted so the bit isn't in the wood then slowly tilt till it's flat. job jobbed.
I've also used the normal base like a plunge by just nipping on the quick release leaver and slowly pushing down. might not recommend this though.
oh, put an end stop on as well as the sides.
I use my Katsu for this sort of thing all the time. normally with a bearing bit, but I've done like you show before for a book slot on a project. Start with router tilted so the bit isn't in the wood then slowly tilt till it's flat. job jobbed.
I've also used the normal base like a plunge by just nipping on the quick release leaver and slowly pushing down. might not recommend this though.
oh, put an end stop on as well as the sides.
That's great. If I use a 10mm diameter bit, will the katsu be ok for the final 26mm cuts - that depth of bit's not too much for it to handle?
edit - just realised, apparently a 25mm bit is about the limit of what the router can handle and that won't reach the bottom of the mortise, especially allowing for the depth of the jig! Back to the drawing board.
another edit! Would it be an option to make a jig that guides the router's movement, but with the router base directly on the board? So, just the frame (in the above photo) without the jig's ply base?
edit - just realised, apparently a 25mm bit is about the limit of what the router can handle and that won't reach the bottom of the mortise, especially allowing for the depth of the jig! Back to the drawing board.
another edit! Would it be an option to make a jig that guides the router's movement, but with the router base directly on the board? So, just the frame (in the above photo) without the jig's ply base?
novocaine
Established Member
Yep. Be fine to simply attach a rail too the board and guide the router along it.
You arent taking 1 cut so 25mm bit is fine. 3-4mm each pass. You can run it out on the shank a bit to so you get a deeper final cut. Say 10mm of shank stuck out the collet.
How to attach something without destroying the finish.
https://youtu.be/ub6PsY4cgwg
You arent taking 1 cut so 25mm bit is fine. 3-4mm each pass. You can run it out on the shank a bit to so you get a deeper final cut. Say 10mm of shank stuck out the collet.
How to attach something without destroying the finish.
https://youtu.be/ub6PsY4cgwg
Thanks for your continued efforts to help, novocaine.
I've realised the fly in the ointment with my cunning plan 17b:
Without a base to the jig, the router will tilt as it sits on the V so it won't cut vertical sides. Any packing would have to level the base of the router continuously in its movement from side to side, which isn't likely to be easy.
Looks like I'll have to go with the full jig and rent a more suitable router (only £20 for a day quite nearby, so not so bad I guess). Hmmm.... #-o
I've realised the fly in the ointment with my cunning plan 17b:
Without a base to the jig, the router will tilt as it sits on the V so it won't cut vertical sides. Any packing would have to level the base of the router continuously in its movement from side to side, which isn't likely to be easy.
Looks like I'll have to go with the full jig and rent a more suitable router (only £20 for a day quite nearby, so not so bad I guess). Hmmm.... #-o
Attachments
I have the tilt base for the makita Chris (in fact I bought the whole kaboodle) Should fit your Katsu. If it's any use I can post it long as you send it back after! PM me if (or any other bits) are any use.
Board is looking bangin'! =D>
8)
Regards
Chris
Board is looking bangin'! =D>
8)
Regards
Chris
Thanks Chris - that's really kind of you. Kicking myself for being too tight to buy the complete kit from katsu in the first place, and to keep things as safe as possible I just ordered the plunge base earlier!
But I think maybe it wouldn't be necessary to use a tilt base - if I make the jig using a 5mm ply base, I can cut to a depth of 20mm with the cutter in the normal position and then, if I can move the cutter out in small stages (v small passes and most of the wood already removed with a forstner bit) up to 6mm, that should reach the required depth (26mm). I just tried it with 6mm of shank sticking out the collet (tho didn't make a cut) and there's still plenty for the collet to hold firmly onto (tho I really don't know what I'm talking about). I guess it's not going to make for the cleanest cuts in the final passes as it'll vibrate some, but the final cuts will be hidden under the fin box.
stop press - I can get 3mm hardboard at Wickes for £not-too-much, reducing the amount the cutter needs to come out of the collet to 4mm.
But I think maybe it wouldn't be necessary to use a tilt base - if I make the jig using a 5mm ply base, I can cut to a depth of 20mm with the cutter in the normal position and then, if I can move the cutter out in small stages (v small passes and most of the wood already removed with a forstner bit) up to 6mm, that should reach the required depth (26mm). I just tried it with 6mm of shank sticking out the collet (tho didn't make a cut) and there's still plenty for the collet to hold firmly onto (tho I really don't know what I'm talking about). I guess it's not going to make for the cleanest cuts in the final passes as it'll vibrate some, but the final cuts will be hidden under the fin box.
stop press - I can get 3mm hardboard at Wickes for £not-too-much, reducing the amount the cutter needs to come out of the collet to 4mm.
novocaine
Established Member
wouldn't fret to much on vibration, it's going to be pretty minimal.
I'd still be tempted to drill out most of the waste before you cut the slot, reduce the amount of work the router has to do. that's just me though.
I'd still be tempted to drill out most of the waste before you cut the slot, reduce the amount of work the router has to do. that's just me though.
The plan's to remove the edge in 3mm steps and every second step (6mm) remove the centre with a forstner bit - it should only be 6mm width that needs removing from the centre. I thought to do this so the cutter gets an even cut, no bumpy bits, but doesn't have to reach down a channel too deeply. I've just had my first plays with the plunger attachment, seems fine (tho just as clumpy in adjustments as the regular attachment for my katsu) but I want to keep everything as un-challenging as possible!
I have a limited amount of wood that'll be left at the bottom of the mortise so don't want to drill away right to the bottom, in case I go too far (especially with that spiky bit at the centre of the forstner). Is there a direction or method to using the router to clean out/ level the bottom? I know to go clockwise with the cuts around the edges.
I have a limited amount of wood that'll be left at the bottom of the mortise so don't want to drill away right to the bottom, in case I go too far (especially with that spiky bit at the centre of the forstner). Is there a direction or method to using the router to clean out/ level the bottom? I know to go clockwise with the cuts around the edges.
Meanwhile...
Cutting the holes was a bit nerve racking but went fine, but the resin for the leash plug found a tiny hole and the level kept dropping! Removed the plug, cleared it out and bunged it up with araldite epoxy (which is thicker) and glued it in with that instead. Hopefully no conflict between the two types of epoxy, but if it pulls out I'll just have to clean the recess and re-glue. I still need to put a little bead around each insert to ensure nothing can seep between the very top of the plastic and the board (cleaning off the excess removed a little from each).
Cutting the holes was a bit nerve racking but went fine, but the resin for the leash plug found a tiny hole and the level kept dropping! Removed the plug, cleared it out and bunged it up with araldite epoxy (which is thicker) and glued it in with that instead. Hopefully no conflict between the two types of epoxy, but if it pulls out I'll just have to clean the recess and re-glue. I still need to put a little bead around each insert to ensure nothing can seep between the very top of the plastic and the board (cleaning off the excess removed a little from each).
Attachments
I don't think you'll need to bother with clearing waste with a drill if your doing inremental depth adjustments with your router. If the router can't fall into the middle then just run it round clock wise, working in and across and you'll be fine.
I may have missed something as you've clearly got this under control and I'm back here to see how it's coming along, not offer advice on sucking eggs.
I may have missed something as you've clearly got this under control and I'm back here to see how it's coming along, not offer advice on sucking eggs.
Thanks Horseee - on the egg-sucking front, I'm still at the actually trying to suck rather than blow stage when it comes to routering - and woodworking in general. So no advice unwelcome! I'm going to have a practice on some scrap today, once the dust extracting attachment arrives (didn't realise the plunger didn't come with one so had to put in another order). I'll have a go with and without the drill to see what happens. Cheers.
This is the setup I have in mind (with clamps for the cross pieces) to hold the template in place - the masking tape/ super glue method won't work as it can't sit flat. Wedges to keep it level on the convex section of base. The hole in the hardboard needs routing before I can align properly, then it's off to the workshop.
This is the setup I have in mind (with clamps for the cross pieces) to hold the template in place - the masking tape/ super glue method won't work as it can't sit flat. Wedges to keep it level on the convex section of base. The hole in the hardboard needs routing before I can align properly, then it's off to the workshop.
Attachments
Routing done!
Honestly, you wouldn't believe the adrenalin running through me before the first cut. I couldn't find a scrap the right size to practice on, but having cut the hole in the cardboard base of the jig, I knew the dimensions were right so decided to crack on.
First cut - I used thinner strips to clamp the jig down as the ones I mocked up (above) were too thcik to allow the handles of the plunger full movement, and the extraction attachment hadn't arrived so instead I put a 100mm extractor at the back and worked with a respirator, which was ok (though some dust built up in the jig enough to stop the router making full movement to the edges on a couple of cuts, so I had to stop and clean up).
As you can see in the first photo, some of the holes I drilled in the stringer and ribs now appear and need bunging up before we pour in the resin - I thought to use sawdust and wood glue, good idea or bad?
Honestly, you wouldn't believe the adrenalin running through me before the first cut. I couldn't find a scrap the right size to practice on, but having cut the hole in the cardboard base of the jig, I knew the dimensions were right so decided to crack on.
First cut - I used thinner strips to clamp the jig down as the ones I mocked up (above) were too thcik to allow the handles of the plunger full movement, and the extraction attachment hadn't arrived so instead I put a 100mm extractor at the back and worked with a respirator, which was ok (though some dust built up in the jig enough to stop the router making full movement to the edges on a couple of cuts, so I had to stop and clean up).
As you can see in the first photo, some of the holes I drilled in the stringer and ribs now appear and need bunging up before we pour in the resin - I thought to use sawdust and wood glue, good idea or bad?
Attachments
novocaine
Established Member
I'd be tempted to go slightly deeper and glue a piece in the base of the hole before you fill with resin. only needs to be 2mm more.
