Surfboard build WIP

[Chris152]

Thanks both. I carried on with the no4 at funny angles, and used a block plane when that couldn't make contact, and think it's looking ok to follow up with a sanding block, as you say, Tn. I've never used a scraper and tbh, don't know how to use one - so it could easily lead to more problems! We're now onto flattening a platform onto the top of the rails for the top to attach to, which has to be done with a block plane on account of the contours. You can just about make it out in this photo, still needs some work but nearly there:

Then it's on to jointing the 6mm boards to make the top! We're going to use wood we have here already to save spending, could look ok but would have liked some of that lovely wood you see in the vids.

Speaking of costs, I was quoted £250 for glassing which is more than I want to spend on this one - so far, wood and glue has cost about £57 including glue. Sooo - it looks like we're going to have to do the glassing ourselves.
Does anyone know if this stuff would be good for the glass and finish coats?
https://www.fyneboatkits.co.uk/supplies ... y-coating/

 

[novocaine]

stanley knife blade can be used as a scraper.
hold either side between thumb and fore finger, bend it a tad and push it along the grain. great for tricky little curves and angles like this.

have a go on scrap.

grab a saw next time you go in to pound store. cut a 6" piece of with an angle grinder and flatten the teeth. tad dar, one scraper. you can raise a bur on the edge with the shaft of a screw driver but you'll find it works without.

you can also form special shapes like a radius.

also, a long sanding block or levelling beam as alluded to above is a must, for this I'd suggest you want more like 18-24", it can be as simple as a chunk of 3x2 but it'll be heavy on the arms.

you're doing well, you are nearly over the worst of it, leave it be till it's a completed shell now.

as for glassing up, you can do that yourself and even at 0.5mm thick (you'll be more like 1mm) it will massively improve the rigidity of the structure, it will also let you get away with some roughness to the finish as you'll have a bit of filling material that will need to be smoothed (this is were the real black art is on setting a rail). don't fret dust in the gel coat, unless you drop a ton of it you'll be fine, it's layup time is pretty quick.

 

[Chris152]

Finished feathering the tops of the rails to flat, now for the top!

...leave it be till it's a completed shell now.

I think that's the key right now - more fiddling will just take more off the rails, and once the top's on it'll need finishing which will mean reworking the bits we've already 'finished'. And we'll definitely be giving the Stanley knife blade a go at that point. Can't say I'm very relaxed at the idea of glassing but I guess the idea is to plan ahead and be totally organised.
I called Fyne Boats today about resin etc, they were incredibly helpful and, in case anyone else is looking for wr cedar/ paulownia, they sell it either planed or sawn, the latter being much cheaper apparently (they don't list prices but I'll get a quote for the next board).
Thanks novocaine!

 

[Trainee neophyte]

Looks like young Novacaine knows what he is talking about - pay more attention to him, and less attention to me!

Fibreglassing can't be too hard - surfers do it all the time! All in the prep work, probably. Fyne boats will be the people I get my plans from, probably - they do seem to specialise in wooden boards, so I expect their stuff is of sufficient quality. One of my problems is the complete lack of fibreglass /epoxy knowledge where I live - I will almost certainly have to buy mail order from abroad - Fyne Boats being on my list. If I start now, I could be on the water by October.

If.

 

[Chris152]

One of my problems is the complete lack of fibreglass /epoxy knowledge where I live - I will almost certainly have to buy mail order from abroad - Fyne Boats being on my list.

I'm happy to buy from them even if they're a bit more expensive (which I don't know is the case) - they were able to advise specifically for a wooden surfboard (/SUP), which most aren't in a position to do, which was great for me. But check carriage - they said the epoxy is a hazardous substance so needs different delivery, £15 to Wales but since I'm buying the fin box, leash plug and valve from them, not so bad.

Just band-sawed the thinner pine strips to plane to 6mm tomorrow, along with the darker (and narrower) steamed beech strips. Can't help thinking the spruce shuttering looks like, well, shuttering, but at £7.50 we're sticking with it - and the worst two are on the outside, so most should be cut away to follow the contour of the board.

But at least the pine is book matched so it looks nice-ish. Definitely best to prep your own wood if you can, but I don't have the confidence/ skill to re-saw the wider strips.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

Once the glass goes on and it's all shiny, it'll look fabulous. Knots are sexy, I promise!

How else will you know it is two wood? {Belatd edit - I thought I typed "true wood", but apparently autocorrect knew better}

Thanks for info re Fyne Boats - I shall be talking to them shortly.

 

[novocaine]

once you've got glass over it, it will darken and look less like shuttering.

right, mini glassing lesson.
figure you will be using woven mat rather than strand, it's heavier but stronger, you may need to use a mix as woven can be hard to make go round sharp curves.
prep only the amount you need to cover the area you are doing. if you are doing the entire top, mix in 2 halves, you will have enough layup time to mix 2 batches, for most stuff like this you are best to mix in a 2 pint jug. follow the mix to the letter, to much hardener will let it setup to quick and you'll be chasing yourself, to little and it will gel but never set, they are normally mixed by weight although I've used stuff that's done by volume.
cut the matting for the area you are doing and make sure it forms where you need it too before you mix anything, you may need to cut darts to get it round the tight bits, the best scissors (yes it really matters, you are cutting glass don't forget) are called tough cuts, they are what hospitals use to cut plaster, get a set.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Scissors-Tough ... B00AKE20PE

right, now you are sure you know the mat will fit, mix your resin, epoxy or poly it doesn't make a difference you do it in the same way.
flood the surface you are working, if you think it's a bit thick you have nearly put enough on, us a paint brush, a good one as there is little more annoying than picking out brush hairs. lay the mat on and use a roller or your brush to work it in to the resin you've applied, it should soak through, if it doesn't you didn't put enough on but don't fret it. apply another coat over the top while still wet. do this over a largish area then use a roller to flat it out.
you only want 1 layer over the entire board but you will overlap in a few places, don't sweat it.
do the entire top while it's wet (same for the bottom) you can seam it once dry but it's better to do it during gel.

once you've done the entire board you can apply a gel coat (clear in this case but we used to colour it at this point), basically just a resin mix rolled over the entire thing. once thats done you are in to sanding, sanding, sanding and then sanding.

this should give you a 0.5 to 1mm ish Glass fibre.

wear gloves.
wear a mask if you aren't in a well ventilated workshop
be ready for a head ache.

have fun, it's a great skill to have.

don't think I've missed anything but I'll take a look over it later and see if I've forgotten anything.

 

[Chris152]

Thank you so much for taking the trouble to write this out for us, novocaine! I'm going to print it out and take it to the workshop when we do the job. It seems two things are most important - get the mix right; get it on before it begins to harden - the first is easily sorted (I hope), the second is where the stress comes in!

Meanwhile, all strips for the top planed to 6mm and looking ok. We're just trying to figure the method of glue up. We can use up to eight sash clamps and four of the cross-bits to stop the strips lifting out of alignment (the Irwin clamps won't fit underneath) - but we can put 5 more timbers on the top, directly over the 5 blocks holding the strips off the floor, and weigh them down.

Couple of questions?! How many sash clamps should we use along the 2.4 m length? And what do I put between the blocks holding the strips from lifting and the strips themselves to stop the blocks getting glued to the strips - will masking tape on the blocks be enough?
edit - And what's the order of clamping - tighten the sash clamps somewhat, then bring down the blocks; finish tightening the sash clamps, then further tighten the blocks?
Thanks for any advice.

 

[novocaine]

Sod the clamps.
Lay a strips out and stick a strip of masking tape across them every 12" on one side.
Flip it over. Lift so a pair of strips folds on the tape and apply glue on the edge. Repeat across each join. Push it down flat,wipe off excess glue. Add weight to the top with what ever you have. Leave to dry.

Edit. Like done at 3.20 but on a bigger scale.

https://youtu.be/iiHlAa131NI

 

[Chris152]

The problem we have with that method is that some of the strips have moved enough to need pulling into place with a bit of sideways pressure (that or my planing was bad) - I don't think tape will be enough to hold it. So I think we'll go for a hybrid - use the method but some clamps/ weights too.

 

[Chris152]

Well, in the words of the song, 'I did it my way...' (in the living room, with the clamp).

Seems to have worked ok, tho one strip didn't have enough glue at either end - but fortunately it was at the outside so they've been cut off. Always put plenty of glue at the ends (I read that somewhere).
Flattening the top I'd assumed would be pretty quick but it wasn't - the worst being the spruce, which wanted to tear out, especially around all the knots. There's still some but I hope to get that with final sanding.

The scraper plane came to the rescue but even with that, tearout was a struggle. Avoid stupidly cheap wood.
Now cut back to rough shape and ready for glueing.

Finally,

I found this in the workshop and I've seen them used in surf-build videos online. I'm assuming you cut 'downhill', starting at the widest point and working in to the tail and nose. But can anyone advise on how I sharpen the thing? The edge isn't good at all. Thanks.
edit: Aha!
sharpening-a-drawknife-t106556.html

 

[Chris152]

Glueing the deck on

 

[novocaine]

put the draw knife back where you found it. perfect tool if you are working a balsa board, far to aggressive for a hollow board.
a spoke shave is a more refined version that will let you get your shape without to much effort and little damage.

spruce is a pig to plane and needs a crazy sharp blade, even then you'll have battle with grain direction and tear out. worry not though, you are glassing the board, it will fill any imperfections.

looking good so far.

 

[Chris152]

Thanks - we both agreed it was the most exciting bit so far as the deck started to take the form of a surfboard.
The idea of using the draw knife was to remove the overhang where the deck extends beyond the rails by up to 3/4" - the alternative is a saw, but that could end in disaster, so I thought we'd creep up on the join, then finish with a plane and abrasive (we don't have a spokeshave).
And yes, the spruce was really tricky - found myself checking the prices of 60cm drum sanders, which soon put an end to that idea.

 

[novocaine]

the curve your dealing with on the top, use your plane, the draw knife is likely to dig in and knock chunks out. It's a great tool for working with wet wood in big chunks. In skilled hands (not say yours aren't) it can be made to do stuff with amazing detail and accuracy. For something so thin as your time, it's going to make more work for you than it's worth.

as for sharpening, file/grinder to form the bevel, stone in hand, blade in vice unlike normal where the stones in the vice.

have you got a little low angle block plane? it might be easier for the end grain. (you could also consider a router and bearing bit if you have one)

 

[Chris152]

Advice gratefully received! (Tho I did have a little go - the grain on the spruce is terribly wavy/ complex, so I immediately stopped that.)
One side roughed out. I've been using the no.4 to take off most of the excess, then a block plane, then a power sander on the end grain at the nose and tail, then a sanding block.

The other side's till rough sawn so that's next, then a long sanding block to take out any bumps in the curves. We're trying to decide how to finish the rails/ top transition - at the moment there's a clear change of direction (a friend has a PU board that shape, which I quite like); or just round it off (which is more standard and possibly easier, in that there's no line to get right).

 

[Trainee neophyte]

I'm imagining it with the glass on, looking super-cool. Very sexy.

Sent Fyne Boats an email today - need to work out £100 delivery charge for epoxy - may have to source it locally.

 

[novocaine]

hard part is getting the sides to match (and to start with they do need to match), an asymetic board is great fun when it's intended (and short) less so when it's not. get a profile gauge (link below), mark the centre line (piece of masking tape to draw on) then mark every 6-10" along the board (right out on the edge). use the profile gauge on one side then make the other side match it, work your way down the board.

best to start with this approach from the off if you can, usual adage of you can take it off but you can't put it back on.

if you have a friend with a board rail shape you like then use the profile gauge and a pen to copy it by doing the same method as above (draw round the profile gauge on a piece of card, mark each one with a reference so you know which it is, cut it out so you can use the profile gauge to get the shape and transfer it to your board). you'll quite likely have to change it though as I suspect your board will be a bit heavier and need a sharper rail profile (think that's right, it's been a long time) to let you engage.

profile gauge.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Contour-Gauge- ... 9170769615

 

[Chris152]

That looks a great tool, it'll definitely help getting the sides matching. Delivery's slow from Amazon and we want to crack on (school starts Monday, hopefully we can finish the woodwork by then) so I'll try to pick one up in Toolsmart today. Thanks for pointing it out. (ps - the friend's board is over in west Wales so not really practical.)

Tn - I've no idea how things work there, never even visited, but aren't there boat yards with supplies that can sell it to you? If I wanted West system I could drive into Cardiff marina and buy some straight away. £100 is horribly steep!

 

[Trainee neophyte]

I can find epoxy here - seems to be reasonably priced. I just don't know if it is any good. Investigations continuing...

Edit:
Just had a rely from Fyne Boats - the solution is to order sufficient epoxy for 6 boards, and then delivery is only £25 per board. Why didn't I think of that! (I'm guessing something got lost in translation.. :wink: )