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By Pete Maddex
#1195724
AndyT wrote:Thanks Custard - your practical advice is always welcome! I shall add extra lines as described. Chris Schwarz allows himself a full inch below the apron before the taper starts, so I was going to go with that and see how it looks - I shall definitely aim to stop before the joint. He suggests bandsaw followed by plane. I'm not sure whether to do that or just plane the lot.

I've done a practice tenon on scrap too - but that will have to wait while I cut some more mortices!

Any thoughts on the joints between the bottom rail (under the drawer) and the legs? I was thinking just a single short mortice and tenon, but does it need to be twin tenons?


I have seen a half blind dovetail from the inside in the lower draw rail and the top rail with a half blind dovetail into the top of the leg.
It looks a very strong method of construction but I am not sure you will have enough space for a dovetail on the lower rail.

Pete
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By toolsntat
#1195822
AndyT wrote:Image


E T phone home.....
By cowfoot
#1196071
Enjoying this one.
I can post you the Lie-Nielsen DVD with Chris Schwarz making this table (with hand tools only) if you’d like, Andy...not that you need his help, by the looks of it!
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By AndyT
#1196084
cowfoot wrote:Enjoying this one.
I can post you the Lie-Nielsen DVD with Chris Schwarz making this table (with hand tools only) if you’d like, Andy...not that you need his help, by the looks of it!


That's a nice offer but I think now that more instructions might confuse me!
I've looked at some other articles and some Garret Hack videos of a similar build.
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By AndyT
#1196487
Ok, interruptions over and I'm back in the workshop. A nice steady 13° despite the hail showers outside.
I finished cutting all the mortices for the apron rails. Just to cheer up El Barto, here's a less than perfect one where I got a bit over-enthusiastic with the chisel.

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I think I will get away with it once the table is glued together, so please keep quiet about it... :wink:

Chisel spotters may be interested to know that on these narrow, shallow but long mortices I got the best results with a 1970s Stanley 5001 firmer chisel, despite its plastic handle, which I see no need to replace.

I reckon it's a good idea to accept Custard's advice on this project - or any project - but wanted to practice making a twin mortice and tenon joint on this rather small scale, before going ahead for real.

I do have a 5/32" chisel which looks the ideal thickness to use. Marking out is a bit of a challenge though! Mortice gauges only go down to about 1/4". I want to use the same gauge settings for both parts of the joint, but the front of the rail is set back from the front of the leg by ⅛"
I decided the answer was to use an ordinary single pin marking gauge but shim it out when marking the tenon. I made the first mark equal to the thickness of the chisel, then moved it over by that much to get the next setting.


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On the tenon, the nearest thing the right size was an ⅛" drill bit. This worked better than this clumsily posed photo would suggest, but I think I will plane something flat to the right size next time.

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Sawing the tenons was just like sawing dovetails

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with the spare bit in the middle sawn out with my bread and cheese powered fretsaw

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I could pare the cheeks with a nice slender old bevel edge chisel

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which fits easily between

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Custard suggested drilling and paring the little mortice. This needs something to hold the drill nice and vertical, while allowing slow hand control. Time for the Millers Falls No 207!

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I set a special depth stop at the top of the feed

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and made a little row of holes

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which I pared out

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I seem to have missed out on taking any photos of the next step, which was to compare chiselling out the other mortice, so here are some pictures of the chisel I used instead

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After a little more paring and fiddling about, I got this far

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then this far

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I hadn't planned to, but I did take a very small trim off the tenons to make a little setback on the shoulder on top. I didn't do so on the underside, which is why it looked like this

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which is the point of doing a trial version before spoiling the real thing, at least when picky woodworkers come round and lie under the table to inspect its hinder parts. :?

The really good thing is that the joint is plenty strong enough, even without glue, and will be fine for the table.

Back to the tenons next time.
By Starjump
#1196564
Hello, I am posting as a forum newbie having not strayed out of the for sale forum before now. I wanted to say your series on the little table is appreciated. I am learning through doing mainly handwork towards being a better woodworker at present and the details are helpful. I like the little step or shoulder on your cross rail which goes under the drawer for example.
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By AndyT
#1196748
Tenon time!

Here we go with the six long tenons on the ends of the apron rails. I've already settled on these as being 4½" wide, ⅜" long and ⅜" thick. First step is to mark around the ends of the rails, using the same mortice gauge as before, with the pins still set on ⅜" but now centred on the ¾" rails.

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I then sawed down the shoulders

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but cut away from the knife line so I can plane up to it later

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Rather than saw the cheeks, I split the wood away, which was quick and easy in this well-behaved walnut

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I then crept up on the lines using the shoulder plane I made for myself a few years ago.

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I'm not saying this to boast about my plane making abilities - you can see here how rough it is. I just want to stress that you can make a useful, functional tool with a few basic tools for about £25 including a bought iron. I think it's a really worthwhile tool to make if you are reluctant to shell out for a new one or can't find an affordable old one. (And making an ugly plane will increase your admiration for those who can make a beautiful one.)

I planed the shoulders as well

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on the bench hook and with the wood vertical in the vice.

There was also plenty of careful chiselling

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and offering up. I marked the width of the tenon from the mortice and sawed the corners off as well.
One thing that I found helpful was that I had settled on ⅜" as the length and width. It's also the thickness of my small engineer's square, so laying it alongside shows me how square the tenon is and where it needs planing down to length.

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The end result looks like this

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and like this

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I've completed the six tenons now which has taken most of a pleasant day in the workshop. I know other people would have made these on a router table or table saw in a few minutes, but this is something I really enjoy taking time over, and a project like this is as much about the journey as it is about the destination.
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By custard
#1196770
AndyT wrote:I then crept up on the lines using the shoulder plane I made for myself a few years ago.


I'm envious. Apart from trivial stuff like scratch stocks I've never made a "serious" woodworking tool. It must add immeasurably to the satisfaction of furniture making to do fine work with tools that you've actually made yourself.

=D>
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By MikeG.
#1196804
AndyT wrote:.......One thing that I found helpful was that I had settled on ⅜" as the length and width. It's also the thickness of my small engineer's square, so laying it alongside shows me how square the tenon is and where it needs planing down to length.


Nice stuff, Andy.....and isn't walnut an absolute pleasure to work with?

Just a small comment on the above. There is no great need to be accurate with the length/ depth of the tenon. The end grain contributes nothing to the glue-line strength, and is thus irrelevant to the strength of the joint. OK, with a tenon only 10mm long/ deep, you don't want to be hacking too much off, but you take my point.
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By AndyT
#1196806
Yes indeed Mike - and I am really grateful to Custard for giving me the walnut to use, which I have not tried before. You're right about the tenon length too - I was really just making sure they don't bottom out in the mortice. No need to plane those ends smooth, but I did!
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By MikeG.
#1196807
I know the feeling, Andy, when you've got a plane "singing"..........you look around for anything at all that could possibly do with a little planing.
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By AndyT
#1196811
custard wrote:
AndyT wrote:I then crept up on the lines using the shoulder plane I made for myself a few years ago.


I'm envious. Apart from trivial stuff like scratch stocks I've never made a "serious" woodworking tool. It must add immeasurably to the satisfaction of furniture making to do fine work with tools that you've actually made yourself.

=D>


It is a nice feeling, yes. Tool making can also be a great big distraction, and it does feel good to be started on a challenging project again - I'm just embarrassed at how long it took me to get started on this one.
There will be a pause for new year and doubtless further distractions will arise, but I want to complete this table before the Spring.
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By AndyT
#1197147
After a few more peaceful hours of fussy chiselling, I present not just one twin mortice and tenon joint

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- which actually fits!

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but a pair of them

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which both fit!!

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I know it may not look much, but it is a relief that the joints are tight enough to hold together quite well without glue and haven't burst through the slender slivers of wood remaining in the legs.

I guess the next thing is to trim the tops of the legs, leaving a little bit spare to plane level with the aprons after glue-up, so I can cut dovetails on the upper front cross rail, the one that goes above the drawer.

I'm also starting to think more about the runners which will support the drawer. Underneath the drawer these could just be glued to the apron, but my preference is to stub-mortice them into the cross rail. It's not essential for strength but it will help with getting things lined up accurately. I'll need to have runners at the top as well, so the drawer doesn't droop down when you open it. I'll also need to add some slim guide pieces to fill in the offset between the aprons and the legs.

I don't see any need to put a cross-rail at the back, unless I am going to use it to screw through into the table top, like I did on my little chest of drawers. I could fix the top using screws through the upper drawer rails on the front and sides, with buttons at the back. Or I could use buttons all round, fitted into slots on the upper rails. The magazine articles rather skip over these details.

It's such a small, lightweight piece that I don't think it will need much fixing. Four screws? Six? Four screws and two buttons? Six screws and two buttons? Stay tuned for future instalments if you can stand the tension!
Last edited by AndyT on 10 Feb 2018, 21:14, edited 1 time in total.