Selling woodwork - legal measures?

[Chris152]

I know next to nothing about this, so please be gentle! I'm planning on selling some wooden bowls and am aware I need to take measures to protect myself against litigation/ insurance issues and all that. I'm assuming most of the issues apply to selling any woodwork, not just bowls, so I'm posting here.

Let's say I want to sell this bowl (I posted it in the Turning part of the forum where the issue came up):

It's beech (food safe as I understand it), finished with walnut oil (food safe as I understand it, but may contain nuts...).

What do I need to do to cover myself legally/ financially?
1. I'm assuming I need public/ product liability insurance in case I make some sort of mistake and the bowl makes someone ill etc.?
2. I need to state what the bowl's for - I'd be happy to put dry fruit in it, but not eat my cornflakes from it. I don't know what the effect of tossing a salad with oil and vinegar would be - so I guess I need to state that it's for dry food only?
3. I need to state that the finish is made from nuts so may cause allergic reactions? If I use a food safe finish (such as from Chestnut products) I just state this and assume all is well?
[And where do I state these things? on-line/ on a label attached to the item?]

Then:
4. If I'm starting to sell woodwork (not just bowls, but anything) made in my home, do I need to tell my household insurance company, even though I'm not yet earning over £1K that the government allows tax-free for hobbyists? I have the option to base my work in commercial premises at no cost (just less convenient), so should I do that? If I earn more than the £1K/ lose the hobbyist status, I'm thinking the latter is definitely the way to go.
5. Does public/ product liability cover events like a leg falling off a table and injuring someone (assuming reasonable measures were taken in its making)? Or insect infestation carried by the product into a customer's home? That kind of thing...

These are just the issues that I thought of - if there are more, please tell me!

Thanks

Chris

 

[Garno]

Have a read of this it gives a basic explanation of what you require.

https://startups.co.uk/what-is-product- ... insurance/

 

[Chris152]

Thanks Garno - that's helpful on Product/ Public liability.

Another thing - looking at the quote form for Ian Wallace's Craft Insurance, under 'Statement of Fact', it asks:

'Do you comply with all relevant legislation which applies to your craft? If unsure, please check with Trading Standards' - I've searched but can't find the relevant section. Anyone?! :?

 

[Garno]

Try this, Download all the PDF and spend the weekend reading it all. :shock:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/woodindx.htm

Good luck

 

[Chris152]

Thanks again Garno. The HSE guide seems to be about H&S in the production of stuff rather than protecting consumers? I guess Trading Standards will be more about that, but I can't find the relevant bit?

 

[Jacob]

.
What do I need to do to cover myself legally/ financially?
1. I'm assuming I need public/ product liability insurance in case I make some sort of mistake and the bowl makes someone ill etc.?
2. I need to state what the bowl's for - I'd be happy to put dry fruit in it, but not eat my cornflakes from it. I don't know what the effect of tossing a salad with oil and vinegar would be - so I guess I need to state that it's for dry food only?
3. I need to state that the finish is made from nuts so may cause allergic reactions? If I use a food safe finish (such as from Chestnut products) I just state this and assume all is well?
[And where do I state these things? on-line/ on a label attached to the item?]

I think you worry too much. You sell it as a bowl. It's up to the users to decide what they use it for. If they choke on it or beat themselves to death with it it really wouldn't be your fault. What possible risk is there in reality?

.....
5. Does public/ product liability cover events like a leg falling off a table and injuring someone (assuming reasonable measures were taken in its making)? Or insect infestation carried by the product into a customer's home? That kind of thing...

These are just the issues that I thought of - if there are more, please tell me!

Thanks

Chris

Ditto - you worry too much! Just get stuck in and do it.
People get paranoid about rules and regulations out there to get them! (In fact - thats what 90% of the Brexit debate is about and it's almost completely illusory).
Ask yourself seriously - when did you ever come to harm from a wooden bowl or a table?

Working at home is no prob either unless you get conspicuously busy - noise, deliveries etc
Planners or tax men aren't out to get you unless you are really flouting the law in a big way. They'd give you plenty of notice if you need to get up to speed on the regulations and the taxman is quite happy to take your money late, as long as you weren't trying to hide it.

 

[Chris152]

You can't use the B word in this part of the forum, Jacob! ha. But you're probably right that I worry too much - the only work I've sold before has been on paper (paper cuts can be nasty) and a couple of decorative bowls recently, so no real experience, and none when it comes to stuff in contact with food. I really plan to stick to beech and food safe finish (though I've never tried using the stuff - seen it used and it looks fine). But it's good to know the limits when starting at something like this I think.

I think my number 4's still an issue, anyway - home insurance/ what happens if you make a claim and the company decides you're working professionally (even if you're making a very limited income).
And product liability can't be money wasted?

 

[Jacob]

.......
I think my number 4's still an issue, anyway - home insurance/ what happens if you make a claim and the company decides you're working professionally (even if you're making a very limited income).

Have a look at the policy doc?

And product liability can't be money wasted?

Had to google "product liability".
Of the top of me head - surely this would only be relevant to products which actually are a liability if badly made, involving risk of damage? There are safety regs for toys for instance (sharp edges, toxic finishes etc). Electrical goods, vehicles etc.
In normal usage wooden bowls or tables don't involve risk do they? Has anybody been sued ever for the consequences of a collapsing table - an extremely rare event in the first place. Or a wooden bowl falling on a big toe?

 

[sammy.se]

Would selling through Amazon Handmade, or Etsy take care of all the liability aspects? Might be worth checking out...

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[thetyreman]

why are you so concerned with the legal measures before you even sell anything? presuming you will actually sell the bowl, how much will you make in profit?

 

[Chris152]

Would selling through Amazon Handmade, or Etsy take care of all the liability aspects? Might be worth checking out...

I'd no idea Amazon had a Handmade section! I'll check it out. I have an account with Folksy, but I'm pretty sure they don't assume liability for the things I might sell.

why are you so concerned with the legal measures before you even sell anything? presuming you will actually sell the bowl, how much will you make in profit?

Would the smart thing be to make a load of bowls, start selling them and then look into possible legal and financial implications?

 

[Jacob]

.......
Would the smart thing be to make a load of bowls, start selling them....

Yes without a doubt - nothing else matters much at all in comparison!

and then look into possible legal and financial implications?

As and when, no rush, but keep accounts especially your expenditure. Paper and pencil will do, don't get bogged down in digital spreadsheets or special accountancy books. Keep it simple.
PS one absolute essential is a receipt spike. Buy one or two for a quid or so or make your own with a bit of wood and a piece of stiff wire. Bike wheel spoke is good. It really is the best way to keep all those little bits of paper, receipts, notes, cards etc until your accounting day (which may be many months away) when you write them in and put them carefully away.

 

[doctor Bob]

Would the smart thing be to make a load of bowls, start selling them and then look into possible legal and financial implications?

No, make a couple and see if they sell.

 

[bourbon]

Whatever you do. DO NOT sign up to Amazon Homemade. without looking at their teams and conditions. Don't even post a picture of your stuff. Basically the terms stat that they can use your idea and have it made elsewhere (cheaper) and sell it as their own. There was a big debate on another forum I go on about it.

 

[bourbon]

Whatever you do. DO NOT sign up to Amazon Homemade. without looking at their teams and conditions. Don't even post a picture of your stuff. Basically the terms stat that they can use your idea and have it made elsewhere (cheaper) and sell it as their own. There was a big debate on another forum I go on about it.

 

[Rorschach]

Since you haven't even sold anything yet I think you are massively overthinking the situation.

The only thing really to worry about IMO is your home insurance. Tell them you are running a business out of your home but have no visiting customers, you will find it adds a tiny % to your yearly premium.

 

[Chris152]

Thanks for the replies.

So, is the consensus that there are no risks in selling wooden bowls for food, or common furniture (eg tables), that are worth insuring against or cautioning about (such as a finish that may be an allergen)?

C

 

[Rorschach]

When you sell list in this kind of manner:

Bowl turned from Beech, finished in walnut oil.

 

[loftyhermes]

If selling I think that everyone should at least have public and product liability insurance. It doesn't cost the earth.

 

[Lons]

If selling I think that everyone should at least have public and product liability insurance. It doesn't cost the earth.

Definitely and especially if there is ever the possibility you might deliver something in person to a customer premises, have a customer visit your workshop / showroom or sell from a stand at a fair, in the case of the fair many organisers will insist anyway.

We live in a world of potential litigation whether we like it or not and to ignore that is pretty silly imo.

As others have said though you really need to test the market first and I'd be making very small quantities of various items to do that. Have you been around the fairs, asked all your family and friends, looked at local competition.
Very difficult to make sales without knowing who your customers will be and what they will buy.

Cheers
Bob