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By Sideways
#1334998
It makes me laugh. Routers are designed to pull air in the top and blast it down towards the cutter to help clear chips. Why the hell anyone would put one upside down in a box, try to fight the natural airflow and not expect problems beats me !!!
By Lonsdale73
#1335006
Sideways wrote:It makes me laugh. Routers are designed to pull air in the top and blast it down towards the cutter to help clear chips. Why the hell anyone would put one upside down in a box, try to fight the natural airflow and not expect problems beats me !!!


Glad it amuses you however when one is new to such things and turns to so-called experts for advice then sees even reputable organisations like Incra and Axminster manufactur and sell devices to do precisely that then it's a natural enough assumption to think they know best. My primary interest was what the router could achieve not how.
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By Eric The Viking
#1335026
The only time it's a real pain is doing slotting, when there is nowhere for chips/dust to go other than into the plane of the table.

Steve Maskery did a rather elegant mod to his older table (documented here somewhere, with photos), putting a DX port right into the tabletop, on the outfeed side, to grab the dust and chips and preventing "trenching" cuts from clogging. You should find it if you use the search function. He and I both have Incra plates (and T11 routers) now, and I've got the inserts with slots to help with dust removal and airflow. Mine isn't installed yet (have to change the tabletop), so I don't yet know if it will serve instead.

Personally I wouldn't do one of those collection boxes either. I don't think you can beat simply going round with a brush and a crevice tool on the vacuum afterwards, not least because it makes you inspect the machinery and spot things before they become issues.

My present table has a pressed-steel open metal stand (an older Axminster "professional" product), and there's a 600x400mm open shelf about 100mm under the router. Chips get everywhere, but it is easy to clean too, and almost nothing seems to get into the router itself (Trend T11).

In contrast, I dismantled one of those big cylindrical routers (table-only design) a while back, to find that there was baked-on sawdust on the fan and other places inside it. I think it was used in a "dust collection box", so IMHO, no, those aren't healthy for routers.

Just my twopence... E.
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By Brandlin
#1335036
Sideways wrote:It makes me laugh. Routers are designed to pull air in the top and blast it down towards the cutter to help clear chips. ...


Most modern routers are designed to exhaust from the motor casing upwards. And they are also designed to have extraction through cowling and collect chips level with the router bit. In any case most of the down draft that was created was a by product of the bits rotation.

I do however agree with you that containing any electric component in a sealed box and affecting the airflow over a motor is never a good idea.
By Lonsdale73
#1335043
Eric The Viking wrote:
Steve Maskery did a rather elegant mod to his older table (documented here somewhere, with photos), putting a DX port right into the tabletop, on the outfeed side, to grab the dust and chips and preventing "trenching" cuts from clogging. .


Something like this?

Router_plate.jpg


This is what I refer to as The Black Hole.

Router_hole.jpg


Underneath the hole is one of these from Axminster which has another hose running off to the fence. A third hose connected to a shop vac extracts from the router port as well. It's without doubt the cleanest operation in the workshop.
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By ola c
#1335046
Another Triton TRA001 here. Not 100% satisfied, first one vibrated like crazy out of the box, got a replacement that are kind of OK but still vibrating too much to run really large bits in the router table.

Anyway, if having a router with built in lift (like the Triton), I see no advantage of mounting it to a insert plate, as long as you can keep the table from sagging without one. Insert plate means more surfaces that needs to be levelled and more edges the work can get stuck on.

I bolted my router directly to my assembly/router table, in i circular recess to not loose to much height, metal supports as close to the router as possible. In the top surface I routed a recess that matches the Incra rings, copied the Incra way with magnets and o-rings to adjust the height of the rings. Has worked flawlessly for a couple of years now and the clean sweep rings do a quite good job for extraction from underneath. No t-tracks (as they easily fill up with dust and just another part that causes edges where the work can get stuck). Fence bolts down in two rows of threaded inserts for close to fence routing, further away (which is quite uncommon for the work I do) it's clamped down through the holes. Have a digitial micro adjust fence so exact position of fence base is not very important. Have a youtubevideo of my router table if someone is interested. https://youtu.be/hz17-UutQNU

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By Sideways
#1335050
Brandlin wrote:
Sideways wrote:It makes me laugh. Routers are designed to pull air in the top and blast it down towards the cutter to help clear chips. ...


Most modern routers are designed to exhaust from the motor casing upwards. And they are also designed to have extraction through cowling and collect chips level with the router bit. In any case most of the down draft that was created was a by product of the bits rotation.


Thanks for that. I use three old Elu's I've had forever so I wasn't aware that some of the brands have reversed the flow. It seems counter intuitive but as long as they're not trying to drag the dust through the motor it's unimportant.
By sunnybob
#1335061
Talk about confusing :shock:
A router is designed to pull air through the router body. Much of whats said here is confusing because a router in a table is upside down.

On a router table, its completely acceptable to enclose the router in a box to contain chips and dust.... PROVIDED....
A/ you have sufficient air flow away from the router to stop dust being sucked back up into the bearings, and / or
B/ you fit a tube around the base of the router which goes down through the box to free air underneath.

Steves black hole helps a lot in taking dust away from slots, but doesnt affect the usual below decks fall out from normal operation.
There is now a third option, which is admittedly more expensive.
After 5 years and 4 router tables, I have reached nirvana.
Buy an Incra plate, and also the clean sweep rings.
These are insert rings that have multiple slots in them. When the router is running, the router motor blows significant air upwards through the router, and this exits through the slots in the rings, pushing 95% plus of all dust up and towards the fence extraction port.

https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/produ ... et-6-piece

I'm a convert. Its smagic :D :D =D> =D> 8)
By Inspector
#1335064
Bob what do you do when you aren't routing with the fence? Round overing (is that a word?) edges or pattern routing for example? Don't the slots increase the amount of dust blowing in your face?

Pete
By Lonsdale73
#1335073
sunnybob wrote: Buy an Incra plate, and also the clean sweep rings.

https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/produ ... et-6-piece



Top of my list - as soon as I win the lottery. WW ha them half price a little while back - all variants except the Triton one!
By sunnybob
#1335076
Just how close do you put your face to the table :shock: :shock: (hammer)

I no longer have extraction to below the table. There is a box, but almost nothing settles in it now. I vacuum it out every so often as shop maintenance.

If not actually using the fence, I set it just back from touching the workpiece and with the two sides wide apart. Doesnt collect everything, but enough to make after work clear up quite simple.

Yes, they are expensive. But how much is a new router after youve blown dust into the bearings? Sometimes, you just have to pay the price for perfection, or suffer for ever with second best.
Remember, this is my fourth home made router table, my fifth fence (no longer home made) my third router plate. think what I could have saved if I'd known Then what I know now. :roll: :roll: 8) 8)
By Inspector
#1335081
If you can feel the breeze and even if you can't, dust is getting in your snot maker. Not a problem if you wear a mask all the time and can open the doors to clear the air. Can't do that here. -7C at the moment and the sun is shining. :ho2 I will enclose mine but have an opening below the motor to let air in with one by the base to draw out the dust and the motor air that has hopefully done its job of cooling. A bell mouth hood close over the table should take care of the fine stuff there. Remember I advocate 6" and larger ducting that not many subscribe to. :wink:
By Lonsdale73
#1335084
sunnybob wrote:
Yes, they are expensive. But how much is a new router after youve blown dust into the bearings? Sometimes, you just have to pay the price for perfection, or suffer for ever with second best.
Remember, this is my fourth home made router table, my fifth fence (no longer home made) my third router plate. think what I could have saved if I'd known Then what I know now. :roll: :roll: 8) 8)


I'd have thought all the slots in the Magna-Lock would have been even more likely to see dust fall into the router. Wasn't the bearings I had a problem with, it was the armature. Same cause right enough.

I don't have much to compare with but I think the Triton offers good dust extraction with a port that points directly at the cutter. I use a Kreg insert with an aperture nearest in size to the bit I'm using which I think helps reduce the amount of dust falling towards the router and a volume so low the dust extactor can easily draw it away afore it has time to build up. The Black Hole was certainly a game changer.
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By Eric The Viking
#1335090
Lonsdale73 wrote:I'd have thought all the slots in the Magna-Lock would have been even more likely to see dust fall into the router. Wasn't the bearings I had a problem with, it was the armature. Same cause right enough.


I hope they don't do that as I've bought a set, too! But the Trend blows a veritable gale out the bottom (er, towards the table!), so I don't think it will let dust get in directly, until it's turned off...

... Hmm.

E.
By sunnybob
#1335107
The fan on the end of the router blows a gale up through the machine and out the top. you can see the dust from the bit being blown upwards through the slots. The fence extraction port takes anywhere from all, to most of it, depending on the particular operation in progress.
Once the router is switched off, I use a wide brush to sweep all the surface dust into the fence port straight away, which stops it blowing about the workshop. Anything that does go onto the floor is vacuumed up at the end of the working day, or even after that router session if its early in the day.
The box under the table does have a vent to allow the fan to work, but I dont have extraction to the box. The amount of collected dust is minute.

Yes, I ALWAYS wear a mask when making dust. And my garage workshop has the roll up door open when I'm working, so multiple air changes constantly.
When the temp drops below 12, my fingers get cold and thats it for that day. 8)