Record CL3 major bearing - adjustment/replacement

[greybeard]

I've been a 'guest' reader several times recently, and have been both educated and entertained! I had just about decided to join, but then the fickle hand of whatever gave a firm push! So hi to all from the puddle once known as Hertfordshire.

I should add that I've searched for related info on this forum, and whilst I've identified a few 'close matches' I couldn't find anything quite similar - apologies if my search technique was lacking, and of course any hints/tips/suggestions would be very gratefully received.

I've had a CL3 for about 18 months and would put myself firmly in the occasional user category. I noticed a day or so ago that the previously fairly quiet running drive seemed louder. Closer inspection revealed that the rubber tread on the belt was jolly fatigued, in fact it was almost non-existent, which was allowing the belt to slide and rub against the pulley side thus making more noise, and also damaging the side of the belt.
(On reading through this it's just occurred to me that maybe belts shouldn't slide like that anyhow? Hey ho, one challenge at a time).

So I thought a quick 'replace the belt' exercise would be a good thing.

And then the fun started.

The manual advises that, once various locking nuts/screws/etc are released/removed, the bearing can be removed 'by pulling to the right'.
(the bearing has to be removed so the spindle can be moved sideways so the old/new belt can be removed/inserted)

But not in my case. The bearing - what am I supposed to pull on? (not an engineering background as you've probably guessed!) - was not about to be pulled anywhere. Or pushed. Or indulge in any other kind of simple sliding movement.

So, I began the process of easing it out using the outer locking ring (turning that 'in' to 'pull' the bearing through, inner locking ring having been already removed). The bearing was reluctant to move to begin with and that did not improve as time passed. But it has moved, slowly.

As the 'inner' part of the bearing disappeared from view inside the main housing I also realised that I was now committed to the removal since I had no means of 'pulling' it back through the other way!

Anyhow, the situation now is that the bearing has very ungraciously condescended to be moved approx half an inch, may be a smidgeon more.

The problem I know for sure that I have now is that the locking ring drift 'contact' points are almost certainly too 'rounded' (serious resistance had to be overcome!) for practical future use - but I have a few other questions that I'd really appreciate some insights on (if only perhaps to confirm my own gloomier suspicions).

Should the resistance have continued as I slowly drew the bearing out? This is another way of saying that 'the resistance continued...' (does this imply unwanted foreign bodies in the remaining bearing/spindle interface?).

There is no damage that I can see to the bearing outer thread now exposed - does this support my thinking that the continuing resistance is down to the bearing/spindle interface?

Will my 'persuading' the locking ring (brass drift etc) have potentially distorted that anyhow?

Realistically - wincing already - does this sound like new bearing and spindle territory? (and does anybody have a handle on the costs? I've tried a couple of dealer websites but couldn't find any prices)

And then the real 64,000 dollar wossname, do these bearings really slide in? And out of course!

I should add that in all other respects the lathe appeared to be functioning happily/properly.

I've already posted an email to Record, they've been helpful to me in the past on a couple of occasions, but this is rather more complicated than my previous little 'challenges'! I think I'll be needing all the help I can find!

thanks in anticipation

 

[DaveL]

Hi Greybeard,

Welcome to the forum.

Sorry to hear of your bearing problem, I am not a turner and cannot help with it, but there are some very good turners here who no doubt will be along to offer advice. 8)

 

[CHJ]

Looking at the manual (Page 24) I am not so sure you have tackled it quite right, I read it that you drive the spindle and bearings out from the rear end.

http://www.recordpower.co.uk/index.pl?s ... &p=CL3&o=1

At which point did you start to have problems? Can you still rotate the spindle in the front bearing?

The only resistance you should encounter is the bearing to headstock fit.

 

[Russell]

removal of the shaft and bearings are as follows.

1. remove the allen bolt and washer from the end of the spindle to the left of the head stock.

2. using the brass bar supplied with the lathe loosen off and remove the locking collar on the inside of the lathe on the phosphor bronze bearing this will require hitting the brass bar with a hammer until the locking ring is free to be removed by hand.

3. remove the grub screws that lock the pulley on to the headstock spindle please note there are 2 one on top of the other

4. knock the spindle out from the left hand side using the brass bar on the centre of the spindle a hammer will again be necessary.

sometimes the back bearing may come out if it remains in place ensure it is cleaned well before reassembly

5. remove the entire spindle assembly through the hole on the right of the headstock where the phosphor bronze bearing sits

6 clean up the bearing and remove any debris

Reassembly is the reverse but don’t forget to put locking ring and belt on the shaft ans you thread it through.

When you have everything in position a mallet or rubber hammer is used to knock the shaft in to the back bearing by hitting the head stock spindle in line with the shaft. ENSURE THAT THE THREAD PROTECTOR IS IN PLACE WHEN YOU DO THIS.

7. When the shaft is firmly located in the back bearing tighten up the locking ring on the inside of the phosphor bronze bearing until the shaft is stiff to turn.

8. locate the pulley in the correct position on the shaft ( there is a key way for the grub screw to locate) ensure the pulley is in line but this can be adjusted later replace both grub screws

9. add lathe spindle oil ( do not use 3 in 1 ) if no spindle oil use gear box oil to the oil nipple on the top on the head stock.

10. tighten up the out side locking ring this should start to free up the spindle as it pulls the bearing

11. you need to run the lathe in for 15 minutes adding oil your goal is to allow the writing on the belt to pass around 6 times when the lathe is stopped on middle speed

you achieve this by small adjustments of the locking rings loosen the inside by a quarter turn and tighten the outside by a quarter turn until the bearing is seated properly and the belt writing passes 6 times on stopping.

12. when this is achieved go to lowest speed and run the lathe for 3 hours to re bed the bearing oiling every 15 minutes. The spindle may lock if this occurs free with a sharp tap along its length on the thread protector and a spanner on the flats of the spindle loosen the locking ring on the inside a quarter turn and tighten the outside a quarter turn and carry on


You are too far away to bring it to me for a service so I hope this helps

 

[PowerTool]

Hello,Greybeard,and welcome to the forum

Hope you get it sorted.

Andrew

 

[greybeard]

Thanks for the welcome messages, just wish I'd joined for happier reasons!

Hi CHJ - your first words sounded a warning note. My 'CL3 Manual etc etc' - the one that came with the lathe - can muster a grand total of 14 pages. Your reference to page number 24..........
And the words and approach outlined are quite different. And, having now read the big one, I agree with your reading.

I think I may have 'spindled' myself as it were, but it never occurred to me to look for a revised/later version of the manual. And there is also no spindle movement through the front bearing now that I can detect - it certainly ain't moving freely. I'm beginning to think I may have taken a slightly dodgy situation and made it worse!

So, in a sort of tyre-kicking frame of mind, I decided to try and at least see if Russell's detailed approach - thank you Russell (Birstall? - not too far for a desperate man, I may yet darken your door! You're closer to me than Sheffield is!) - would bear some fruit.

A judicious tap or two has meant that a) the spindle is now further back in the main bearing, cos the spindle moved and the main bearing didn't(which I think is a good thing?), and b) that the back bearing moved with the spindle (which I think is not so good).
As it stands I should be able to replace the belt (result!), but I can see problems getting the main bearing back where it belongs. I want to sit and think about 'cause and effect' a bit more - or do I mean 'actions and consequences'?
Am I right in thinking that the back bearing won't actually pass through the main bearing aperture while still on the end of the spindle? Or is that a trick of the light? (Or my not quite 20/20 vision?). AArrgghh, of course it won't, cos the flipping pulley block is in the way! Sorry, I really do need to sit down and have a good think!

I hope to speak to Record tomorrow, it'll be useful to hear their take on this.

I'll keep you posted!

Thanks again - all much appreciated

 

[Russell]

You will have to remove the back bearing to extract the spindle for the head stock. I am sure a full strip down and reassembly is the best way to go.

By the way its Birstall west Yorkshire not Birstall in Leicester so anther 30 miles from Sheffield

 

[Russell]

The main bearing sits on a key way it may be the key is twisting if its removed you can see the key which can be manipulated with an allen key (3 0r 4mm I think) from the side of the casting there should be a hole probably full of grease and dust.

If its twisting that will be what is preventing the bearing from moving. The phosphor bronze bearing is tapered on to the headstock spindle so it will only move as far as the taper allows. If the head stock spindle is not all the way in to the back bearing the phosphor bronze bearing will not seat as far in to the head stock the internal locking ring is what pulls the bearing into position during fitting.

 

[greybeard]

Just to end the tale.....

I spoke with the tech staff at Record fairly late last Wednesday. They initially said they'd arrange to pick it up, fix it and return it. But then, before we'd even started to sort out the details of the collection etc., the guy said a straight replacement would be the better solution. No argument from me!
So they sent me a complete replacement headstock; bearings and spindle assembled ready for swapping out (including a new belt!)(even including a new belt access cover/lid thing!!).
That was sent Thursday, arrived Friday, and was being run-in Friday evening. And I'm very pleased and relieved to be able to say that everything appears to be working fine.

In fact the lathe is still inside the guarantee period (something I admit I hadn't fully appreciated - I wasn't reading that part of the manual!), I've had it coming up 2 years, but I really didn't expect this kind of service. Needless to say first on my list for any further workshop equipment is going to be Record!

My thanks again to Russell and CHJ - both gave me more confidence to 'have a go'. Thanks chaps - it can feel quite lonely in the shed surrounded by broken bits!

 

[CHJ]

Now that's what I call a result, I have seen a few knocks aimed at Record since they sourced some of their manufacturing overseas but customer service like that is better than most. Pity that a Full Manual did not come with the Machine in the first place.

Happy Turning. :lol:

 

[Russell]

I work quite closely with record selling their products and have to say that they have excellent guarantee service. They are usually quick to respond and solve problems.

 

[treefella83]

glad you got things sorted grey beard.
record power have been good to me in the past the customer service they provide is the best i have ever known.
over the last few years my little workshop has turned a record power shade of green.
i'm a novice and i turn for a hobby and the price and quality of record power machines and tools is very good value so i see no point in upgrading to more expensive tools.

 

[andystanton]

I had the same problem with the removal of the bronze bearing on my record CL4 I ended up forcing the whole assembly out and thought that everything was wrecked .I found the problem was the over engineered key that is not mentioned anywhere in the manual or the posts that were available.The key had turned but not knowing that it is fact a grub screw that could be wiggled straight making a bit easier removal. The fix to this was to set the screw to the right depth and put a bolt behind it to lock it in place (no grub screw of the right size in my bolt bin).Hope this helps some one with same problem. Lathe back together again.
Andy