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By Ttrees
#1207347
Hi again
I only really got started this morning as I had to find plate big enough, and luckily I found some 4mm
plate, so I didn't have to make this out of that big 8mm plate, and grind it down :shock:
This plane is going to be 11/16" wide, so the thicker steel would have made too skinny an infil/wedge.
It would probably present clearence problems getting that iron flipped over to sit on the bed ,
I wonder if anyone relieved that area on any kind of plane? ...not happening on this one, so I'll try and stick to
the thread.
The thicker 8mm stock is for the sole.
Those 5" thin cutting discs from Aldi are useless, messy, and inaccurate, the regular cheapo slightly thinner discs are way way better.
Thats most of the messy part done, and something to do now in the metalwork shed.

I dont think I'm going to file another dovetail angle to the bottom, and pein the second set of dovetails, as it seems they will be solid.
I still have to see a good demonstration of that, because it seems a bit of an art to me.
I never had a tree trunk and a block of steel to pound on before though :D

Does anyone know the traditional way the bridge above the wedge is constructed on dovetail planes ?

Specs on the plane, at least the way I hope it turns out
George Miller inspired plane with some changes...I drew the best representation I could, with the changes I made,
which were...
Reducing it one inch in length.
Reducing its height by 1/8"
Reducing it to 11/16" in width.
Reducing the bed angle from 20 to 18.5 degrees.

Thanks for reading folks
Tom
Attachments
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User avatar
By Ttrees
#1243778
Hello again, been doing some more on this
Sourced some irons from two woodies which are in a bad way, been outside in the elements for who knows how long.
I think I'll use this one, anyone have an idea of the maker?
1.jpg


Got started cutting the dovetails, not so easy in steel compared to bronze I found out :)
2.jpg


Found out the angle I wanted for the dovetails, which is one in four
3.jpg

4.jpg


More cutting for the sole
5.jpg


A shot of the tools used so far, I really like this Britool hacksaw :)
6.jpg


This cold chisel business doesn't really work like it does with bronze
7.jpg

Found it was a whole lot easier to just saw them off :)
8.jpg


I would love to have some decent flat files for the job, as the ones I have are all higgledy piggledy (hammer)
Luckily I have this flat block to save the day :D
9.jpg


The fit is getting close, I should have had used dividers for the job, but they're elsewhere
and I should have brought the bench grinder into the shed sooner for grinding plenty of scribes from steel nails #-o
10.jpg


Have yet to repeat this on the other side of the the sole using the same method
Kind of winging it and it it could still all end in disaster
Only one way to find out

Thanks for reading
Tom
Last edited by Ttrees on 28 Sep 2018, 23:47, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By AndyT
#1243779
Looking good!
That iron is marked Thomas Ibbotson, an old name acquired by Marples in 1905. Marples were very flexible as to the marks they put on their products.
Last edited by AndyT on 29 Sep 2018, 06:16, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Ttrees
#1243783
Thanks for saving me hours of searching for the maker of this iron AndyT :D
On a bit of thread de-railment, I wonder if this iron has enough good steel left as its really badly corroded...

I would have thought that all these thick old irons had a good thickness of laminated hard steel on a softer substrate,
but watching a recent video from Bill Carter Restoring a Towell mitre plane https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzDd-OBrw0A
at 5:05 into the video, he mentions he swapped the iron out because the old iron had worn right down to soft metal :shock:
Is what he's referring to, a blade whats ground past the welded laminate, or lapped through the laminate because of say corrosion,
or some other scenario?

What I'm getting at is ...
I'm guessing that the hard steel is only on, say an inch or a wee bit more of the business end of the cutter, and the rest of the iron
above this, soft metal, so I have to try and get the shape of the shoulder plane iron from this business end only?
And if so....
Is there much differences in the thickness of the harder laminate in makers, or periods of the time, as if the corrosion is really bad
on this iron, I may have to dodge the worser bits, along with dodging the cap iron slot, so may have to cut into the iron diagonally
to get the shape I want with the good stuff/lesser corroded areas.

I suppose the best bet, and least destructive, is to grind the bevel to try and determine how thick this laminate is, and hope it doesn't get super thin as the iron tapers thinner further up.
I have another old corroded iron to see if it has a thicker hard metal laminate, but not with me at the moment.

Thanks for any input on this subject, which probably deserves a thread of its own
Happy to hear anything on the subject
Cheers
Tom
User avatar
By nabs
#1243789
Ttrees wrote:What I'm getting at is ...
I'm guessing that the hard steel is only on, say an inch or a wee bit more of the business end of the cutter, and the rest of the iron
above this, soft metal, so I have to try and get the shape of the shoulder plane iron from this business end only?
And if so....
Is there much differences in the thickness of the harder laminate in makers, or periods of the time, as if the corrosion is really bad
on this iron, I may have to dodge the worser bits, along with dodging the cap iron slot, so may have to cut into the iron diagonally
to get the shape I want with the good stuff/lesser corroded areas.


I think the length and thickness of the hard steel bit will vary slightly from cutter to cutter as it was all done by hand on the older tapered cutters - the ones I have seen all have a rather thin laminate, which I suppose was desirable as it saved on materials costs while maximising the life of the tool and minimising sharpening effort.

at one point we had a discussion on the forum how best to see where the lamination stopped and started (on thin stanley and record cutters as it happens, but the same principle applies) and grinding the bevel was one of the methods recommended.

looking forward to the future instalments!

PS A good video on the forging to make a laminated tool (a chisel in this case) is here :
http://www.pbs.org/video/2365386383
User avatar
By AndyT
#1243794
As Nabs said, we had a discussion about laminated irons. Here it is - eight pages of it, and pretty well mannered and informative it was too.

laminated-irons-again-t108019.html

The relevant point for your purposes is that with a plane iron like your old Ibbotson one, it will be hard steel up to just shy of the bottom of the screw hole, with probably the whole thickness being hard steel up to that point. (There were tools where a surface layer of hard steel was welded to a backing layer of softer metal, but your iron won't be like that.)

Incidentally, I have posted pictures before showing the stock of shoulder plane irons in Bristol Design - the majority of these were made by cutting down old stock bench plane irons.

Image

Image

(Ignore the thin iron below, made from a hacksaw blade - that's what I was replacing.)

(You might also enjoy the thread where this picture appeared, where I was restoring a shoulder plane - a-rusty-sow-s-ear-t81175.html - and Mr P's attempt to cut down a plane iron - can-i-cut-a-block-plane-iron-down-to-fit-t89930.html.)
User avatar
By StraightOffTheArk
#1243814
If the iron proves too badly corroded, I have a few kicking about that are not really good enough to sell, but somehow too good to scrap and would be better than the one you have, just let me know and I'll post one up to you,

Cheers,

SOTA
User avatar
By Bm101
#1243846
Missed this thread so far Tom.
Have enjoyed reading it.
Just a proper goofer in my shed Tom when I (rarely) get any spare time, you'll be far more experienced than me and I wouldn't dare to offer advice but I would say have a go at the O1 iron. I've done a few now and while I'm a million miles from being knowledgeable about the process I've managed to create a blade that keeps an edge, will sharpen and seems to retain it like most other edges I've used.
(*choosing.words.carefully)
And I've enjoyed doing it.
If you have access to some variety of firepit, an old paint tin would do tbh and perfectly feasible, a hairdryer, a tin of water/oil etc, an oven and a foil tray with a bit of sand you're set.

My first plane 'conversion'. Nothing to boast about. I'd do many things differently but that's the deal isn't it? The iron is good though. It works better than the original and I'm a tiny bit happy about that. I made a better plane than Stanley managed. That's not a bad shout for a first try granted I used their casting. :wink:
Image

It works ok on mahogany.
Image

I only post it to encourage you if that's not too pushy! I hope not.
Latest one is a bullnose iron.

Image

Image

They are all far from perfect, just reckon you should have a pop!
There's summat about it that just appeals. I'd guess it'a a very old thing in the psyche. Fires and that.
Cheers mate
Regards
Chris
User avatar
By StraightOffTheArk
#1243865
- on fires - I've annealed quite a few more defunct files than I will probably ever have a use for as a flimsy excuse for a good fire - there's something exceedingly wonderful in a very primal way about the whole thing, also when a hardened file is transformed into one that can be cut with a hacksaw, it has to be the work of sorcery, with the fire-maker the arch sorcerer!

Tara a bit,

SOTA
User avatar
By Ttrees
#1243868
I have some old files but I am such a miser that I won't give up on them yet... :roll:
One wonders if annealed files would be softer than a vintage iron for scribe/scrimshaw work?
I would then feel better about putting my name or a symbol on the iron, as there isn't too much place elsewhere on the plane to do this.
Can't say you folks aren't encouraging ! =D>
Thanks again, Don't hold me to this, but I might be back with some daft questions on the subject
Tom
User avatar
By Ttrees
#1243881
Hi again
Just seen this method of etching tools, it looks fascinating and easy to do..
famous last words :D
Looks like you could possibly do a negative of an image so you could have a proud image/name
I wonder if you could make a fine image with it though, has anyone tried etching here?
Code: Select all[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmRrS_tlD5k[/YOUTUBE]

Cant seem to figure out how to embed videos
Link...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmRrS_tlD5k
Tom
User avatar
By Trevanion
#1243883
Ttrees wrote:Cant seem to figure out how to embed videos


You don't need the [code] part of what you typed, all you need is the [youtube] brackets. You don't use the full youtube link you instead use the part I've highlighted and underlined in bold in this link:
//youtube.com/watch?v=YmRrS_tlD5k which is the identification code of the video.

So you type in your [youtube] brackets and add the part after /watch?v= part of the URL which is YmRrS_tlD5k between the pair of brackets.




youtu.be/YmRrS_tlD5k
User avatar
By Ttrees
#1243885
Thanks Mr Trevanion :D :D :D :D :D
I've been wondering and trying to do this for a good while...
even to the point of watching how to videos!
I could barely believe it worked this easy, it seemed too good to be true.
Now this saves a lot of effort 8)

Onto the etching part, I just might have to try this, I would love to put some sort of celtic symbol on the iron, as the shamrock design is allready taken up, another thread I must make of it, if I get it down, well if it works atall
Thinking of shortening one of my files now
Thanks
Tom
User avatar
By Ttrees
#1245238
Hello again
Been doing some wore work on this...
Decided to grind the bevel of this old Thomas Ibbotson & Co. Sheffield iron, and the hard steel laminate is a decent thickness :D
I was researching what the symbol is on this iron with no luck
One here suggested that it was a stirrup, but on an old Ibbotson publication the symbol is referred to as "the eye"
11.jpg

12.jpg


Drilled out and chiseled with a ground steel nail so I could fit a junior hacksaw blade in, before the big hacksaw blade
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14.jpg


Some more work with the ground steel nail chisels, two widths used for these bridge holes to get the wee file into
15.jpg


I'll come back when the cuttings done