Roughing gouge advice

[skeetoids]

Hi Folks,

I've been revisiting all the threads in the newbie section and wanted some advice on the following point:

Is it safe/suitable/correct to use a roughing gouge on bowl blanks?

I ask this because I read in the threads that you should only use a roughing gouge on spindle work, I've been using my roughing gouge to true my bowl blanks since I started a few months back!!! Would you advice me to stop this?, and if so is there a tool for rounding off bowl blanks that you recommend I use?

When I say roughing my bowl blanks I mean thay are already round but just not perfectly so.

Many thanks.

 

[Paul.J]

Yes Lee i would stop using the RG on bowls.
A decent 3/8" or 1/2" bowl gouge will do a bowl from start to finish.Inside and out.
The RG isn't suitable for cutting the end grain,if you get a bad catch the tang could bend or even break,as it isn't as strong as a BG and who knows what will happen.
Best be safe tan sorry.

 

[Steve Jones]

Lee,

When I'm in the same position as you I use a 5/8" bowl gouge on large blanks or a smaller bowl gouge on smaller blanks, never a roughing gouge.

Steve

edit: Paul can type faster than me

 

[skeetoids]

Advice much appreciated folks, I'll stop this practice and start using a bowl gouge from now on.

Many thanks.

 

[jpt]

Ive posted this before but it is worth posting again, the result of someone using a spindle roughing gouge on a bowl blank.

john

 

[Bodrighy]

I have had a roughing gouge go to right angles on me doing spindle work, roughing down a green log (yes I am a bit heavy handed) so using on a bowl is a no no. Use the biggest bowl gouge you can get your hands on.

Pete

 

[robo hippy]

I am a bit of an odd ball here, but I prefer a heavy scraper for my roughing on bowls. Fresh burr from the grinder, and lighter cuts to even the blank up a bit, then up the speed and let the shavings fly. The cuts you do with a gouge for roughing are more of a scraping cut, and what better tool to scrape with than a scraper. They do tend to have a heavier tang than the spindle roughing gouges, and thicker, so the stress is easily handled. The tool should always be angled down, slightly below center on the outside of the bowl, and slightly above center on the inside.

There is a Continental gouge, which is flatter than the SRG, and forged, and it has a more rounded nose rather than straight across. You can get some really fine finish cuts with it on bowls because of the steep shear angle you can use, and it is safer on the inside of the bowl than the spindle roughing gouge. It actually, as near as I can tell, the original spindle roughing gouge.

The one disadvantage to using a scraper for roughing is that you don't get the practice that you need to refine your gouge skills. If time isn't a factor, then use the bowl gouge with the attitude of "every cut is a practice cut" attitude. However, for me, the scraper is far more efficient for roughing and shaping, and the gouge slightly better for finish cuts. The scraper can give an excellent finish cut with a burnished burr at a shear angle (45 or more degrees). It gives a lousy surface if you try finish cuts with it flat on the tool rest, and if you work on the inside rim, it will vibrate a lot, to the point that it catches, and your bowl blows up.

robo hippy

 

[frugal]

Does the fact that the bowl gouge can do what the roughing gouge can not but the opposite is not true give a justification to throw away the roughing gouge and just use the bowl gouge for all roughing even on spindles?

 

[Dan-K]

Does the fact that the bowl gouge can do what the roughing gouge can not but the opposite is not true give a justification to throw away the roughing gouge and just use the bowl gouge for all roughing even on spindles?

I would also like to know the answer to this question.
I have been trying to determine which tools are most useful and how few I can get away with (limited funds currently and I don't want to buy tools that will just gather dust...). So far I have just a Hamlet spindle gouge. I had thought a roughing tool, a bowl gouge and a parting tool being the next ones to look out for, but if a can omit one of those so much the better

 

[Jonzjob]

That is a very interesting photo John! I have always used a roughing gouge on bowl blanks and not always lightly.

I think that after reading the experiences here I will rethink my approach rather that face the break!

 

[SVB]

Does the fact that the bowl gouge can do what the roughing gouge can not but the opposite is not true give a justification to throw away the roughing gouge and just use the bowl gouge for all roughing even on spindles?

I would also like to know the answer to this question.
I have been trying to determine which tools are most useful and how few I can get away with (limited funds currently and I don't want to buy tools that will just gather dust...). So far I have just a Hamlet spindle gouge. I had thought a roughing tool, a bowl gouge and a parting tool being the next ones to look out for, but if a can omit one of those so much the better

My opinion is yes and no.

In order to perform a reasonable job as a roughing gouge for spindle work in terms of rate of material removal you are looking for at least a 3/8 but preverable a minimum of a 1/2" UK (5/8" US) bowl gouge. They are not cheap + a swept back grind is an advantage which would lead you to something like the Herny Taylor HS1 - £60 ish.

If you are just starting out I would suggest a traditional 3/8 bowl gouge AND a spindle roughing gouge (the correct full name - spot the clue!). Both can be had from Crown tools with change from £40 ish. (go for the standard handle bowl gouge not the long handle - I know it looks sexier in the packet in the shop with a long handle but unless you have a serious lathe the long handle hits the lathe bed when push cutting the outside of the bowl).

Does that help?!?
Simon

 

[Bodrighy]

A lot of my wood goes onto the lathe in log form, especially spindle work and is green. With heavy stuff I use a roughing gouge as I can take it down very quickly and once I hit the round I can get a smooth finish as good as a skew by paring with a slicing cut. Smaller 'logs' (say 20mm or so) I rough it down with a skew unless it is exceptionally rough with knots etc. Face plate work I wouldn't consider using either for any part of the procedure, just different sized bowl gouges fro different purposes. Not having a bandsaw I tend to work on wood of all sorts of shapes and sizes, bigger stuff rough cut off the corners perhaps with a chain saw.

Pete

 

[Dust Busker]

I think Peter Child still does "unbranded" HSS superflute bowl gouges either with or without handles at a very good price. The tools are made by Henry Taylor but without the brand name stamped on the tools, so you save quite a bit. I have the 5/8" superflute of this type from Peter Child and its as good as any tool I own.

 

[mark sanger]

Hi

Good info here as ever. The spindle roughing gouge has a shallow profile which means that when we rough down a spindle blank to the round with can traverse fairly efficiently without inducing spiral lines as with a bowl gouge. This is due to the large profile/radius of the spindle roughing gouge. The SRG can also be used for producing shallow curved coves again made easy by the gradual radius. Again this is more difficult with a finer radius bowl gouge.

The SRG can also be used to rough up to square shoulders by rolling the tool right over towards the shoulder you are roughing up to so that the area cutting is fully supported by the tool rest.

The bowl gouge can be used for this however due to the much deeper profile due to the needed extra rigidity makes getting into a square/ 90 deg shoulder more difficult.

Have a look at Keith Rowley's book A foundation Course, this shows what the SRG can be used for.

The bowl gouge can be used but does not do it as well on spindle roughing.

It is important to learn fully what the tools can do and practice their used in these applications. This in turn can save money by not having to muy tools that you do not need.

I only a bowl gouge to produce a bowl, from producing the spigot and through the whole process to finish.

My long grind BG which has almost an inch long wing on it I can use for, balancing the blank, profiling, scraping and finishing cuts.

I will if any on is interested in seeing how I use the BG for these processes I will take some pictures to show. As well as the SRG being used for different processes.

 

[skeetoids]

Thanks Mark, that would be helpful.

I have just bought Keith's book and slowly working my way through it.

Cheers.

 

[mark sanger]

Thanks Mark, that would be helpful.

I have just bought Keith's book and slowly working my way through it.

Cheers.

Hi

All the techniques that I am talking about come from this book.

I found for quite a while when I started turning that I purchased about every book that I could get hold of. But never read any of them all of the way through.

So I was advised to get Keith Rowley's book and to learn it from front to back and inside out.

I did and never regret it. It is a brilliant book, simple to the point, containing what you need to know and the rest is left out.
If you learn everything in that book and can put it into practice, you will not need to learn much else to be able to make any object you like.

 

[skeetoids]

Hi Mark,

Great advice as usual.

I have read on the newbie threads about this book and also my own research pointed to Keith's book.

I am slowly working my way through the book, 5 years as a student will ensure that most of it will be memorised in a few weeks or so.

The practice is what I'll take my time with.

Many thanks.

 

[Jonzjob]

I have Phil Irons book Tournage sur Bois, it's in French and it makes for interesting reading!. I certainly helps with my French though.

I would have thought that as long as the tool rest is very close to the turning object then there would be little or no problem with using a roughing gouge on a bowl blank ? The only likely difference being the diameter of the blank?

I am completely ready to be corrected, but why the difference?

 

[SVB]

I have Phil Irons book Tournage sur Bois, it's in French and it makes for interesting reading!. I certainly helps with my French though.

I would have thought that as long as the tool rest is very close to the turning object then there would be little or no problem with using a roughing gouge on a bowl blank ? The only likely difference being the diameter of the blank?

I am completely ready to be corrected, but why the difference?

Sorry - NO this is not the case.

The difference is in the grain direction. For spindle work the tool is only asked to cut along the grain, i.e. to peel off layers. In a bowl blank the tool is confronted with end grain twice per revolution. This will cause the cutting action of a spindle roughing gouge to grab and either the handle come up and hit you under the chin or if you unlucky snap at the weakest section and then the sharp end hit you under the chin!

In conclusion - PLEASE don't do it!

Simon

 

[paulm]

As Simon says , and the roughing gouge takes a much wider and therefore bigger bite than a bowl gouge which exacerbates the problem.

Coupled with the RG having a smaller cross section and length of tang than a bowl gouge also, it's all the ingredients for a nasty accident or at best brown pants syndrome :lol:

Cheers, Paul