Acceptable table saw blade runout?

[gidon]

Chris - I hadn't thought of vibration. Actually I put the saw on a mobile base recently. Together with the fact my foor is far from flat - I think I am getting a little more vibration than before. Will look into it - ta.

Adam - lucky you! Not sure how you got away with no set-up on the TS2500. My TS2000 has to be put together. This isn't fettling I'm talking about - it's tool set-up. All machinery (not talking jigs here) needs set-up of some kind I would think. I'm not filing the table, or hammering the sliding table! That would be fettling. I'm just adjusting the sliding table with shims provided by Scheppach. Apart from anything else a not properly set-up machine is dangerous. But I take your point - you can take it a bit far! Although secretly I quite enjoy it :lol:.

I agree with the comments regarding engineering - £1000 is a lot of money for a fairly basic tool - we're not taking a car here. It should work properly. However because of p&p machinery often comes partialy unassembled - and there in lies the problem. It is generally up to the user to set-up those often important final aspects of assembly. Particuarly so with saws and sliding carriages. I'm not sure this would go away if you spent £5000 for a saw. Scrit may know if he stills frequents the group.

Anyhow in this case it appears to be the blade that's the issue not the saw (although I'm still unsure about that). And it's not as if they come cheaply either!

Thanks for all you comments and suggestions - much appreciated.

Cheers

Gidon

 

[Alf]

I repeat that we the consumer do not have to put up with this rubbish. Use your wallet to demonstrate that poor quality is just not good enough. Take any unsatisfactory kit back - don't be fobbed off with sloppy goods.

Ahh, back in the ideal world again. Did you not take a voucher in return for that unsatisfactory biscuit jointer? Tsk. Shouldn't it have been cash, as you were entitled to if it didn't do its job? You didn't use your wallet to demonstrate anything at all, 'cos they still got your money in the end. Gawd knows I've tried to fight the good fight, sending back unsatisfactory goods seemingly endlessly (anyone else noticed how the number of product recalls in supermarkets has increased btw?). But no more. The last time was too stressful and, frankly, expensive, for me to repeat. By all means, Tony, pick up the banner and carry on, but at least do the thing properly. :wink:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Anonymous]

Alf, I hang my head in shame (over my voucher)

However, I had owned the B&Q jointer for about 6 1/2 months and couldn't find the receipt or horrible plastic carrycase. I thought they provided good service.

OK I give up the fight and have burnt the banner

Cheers

Tony

 

[Alf]

OK I give up the fight and have burnt the banner

You're right, we must stop trying to cure the symptoms instead of the disease. It'll be much quicker to just shoot* all the accountants... :wink:

Cheers, Alf

*No letters please. My brother's an accountant and I'm willing to make the sacrifice after all... :twisted: Oh all right then, if you insist. We'll send them for re-training instead. Any suggestions for what as? I thought targets...

 

[johnjin]

Hi Tony
No you don't have to hang your head in shame or give up the fight. You took it back without receipt or packaging and got a voucher. That in my opinion was the correct thing to do and full marks to B&Q for giving this, as without a receipt there was no obligation on there part. Any item that you purchase should be up to the job that it is meant for, never mind how much you paid for it. Some cheap tools are perfect and some expensive tools are rubbish. The problem is knowing which is which.
Keep complaining

John

 

[Adam]

Adam - lucky you! Not sure how you got away with no set-up on the TS2500. My TS2000 has to be put together. This isn't fettling I'm talking about - it's tool set-up. All machinery (not talking jigs here) needs set-up of some kind I would think. I'm not filing the table, or hammering the sliding table! That would be fettling. I'm just adjusting the sliding table with shims provided by Scheppach. Apart from anything else a not properly set-up machine is dangerous. But I take your point - you can take it a bit far! Although secretly I quite enjoy it :lol:.

Ahh, 'cos I bought my saw from my local shop (Homewood), they build up all the machines and check them before delivery. So, I didn't do any "contruction" of it whatsoever. He sells loads of them, so is pretty speedy at putting them together. Given the price is the same as any of the on-line stores, and delivery is free, I consider myself to be getting quite a bargain!

Adam

 

[Midnight]

The real question here has got to be...how much is one paying? Perfection costs a lot more than OK, and the prices are mostly set for OK. Living with OK is what most of us, certainly Alf, me too, have to do
John

John, forgive me if this doesn’t make much sense; it’s been a looooooooooong day and I’m tired…
I agree with you totally… perfection’s a fine thing to strive for, but by definition, it’s nigh on impossible to attain. I guess the crux of the thing lays in where your definition of OK falls.
Case in point; the first time I saw Carl Hockley’s planes, I sat slack jawed staring at he screen for hours…. Superb craftsmanship… but them prices…Oi Vey…

OK, for me… lays with Lie Nielsen; standards of quality and workmanship that I expect, prices I can afford (but not without some soul searching and sacrifice), capabilities that let me place faith in the tool and allow me to develop my skills. I’m NOT saying that there aren’t others who are capable of meeting the standards I’m looking for. I just prefer to stick with buying from a company that have demonstrated their capability to maintain quality right across their product range, rewarding through repeat ordering; excellence generates its own rewards.

Less than OK… from bitter experience are the likes of new Record / Stanley etc for reasons that have been thoroughly discussed elsewhere on this list..

Note, I’m not happy with having to settle for just OK; I’ve promised myself that one day if and when funds permit, I’ll own a couple of old Spiers planes just to see for myself how an infill can make a difference. A guy’s gotta have some dreams…right..??

 

[gidon]

Adam - no such luck in these parts. I bought my saw from DM-tools - they took my money and then had no more to do with me. I dealt exclusively with NMA from then on (for delivery and support). You have to wonder where DM's value add is. The ability to produce a half decent website with ordering capabilities?

Cheers

Gidon

 

[Noel]

Just a footnote regarding taking delivery of dis-assembled and built up machinery. IMHO I'd prefer to build up a machine myself. Certainly it's very handy having somebody else do the donkey work but in order to understand how a machine works, how to maintain and adjust it correctly and perhaps most importantly know how to carry out any remedial action if there are any problems I find that building up a machine is the ideal starting point. Plus the fact I really enjoy the journey from a box of bits to a finished and functioning tool.
I guess most woodworkers, especially those of the Normite variety, have two main strands to their passion - workshop maintainance (tools, jig building etc) and the rather more productive area of furniture construction.
Sometimes (well most of the time, in my case...) one can spend too much time on the workshop maintainance side of things.......


Rgds

Noel

 

[Anonymous]

Alf

I couldn't do it!

The fight is on and I have made a new banner.

I for one will not accept poorly manufactured/designed machines and will continue the good fight.
If it is not properly made, it goes back. Every time.

Cheers

Tony (feeling quite bolshy (and a little fed up) today)

 

[johnelliott]

I for one will not accept poorly manufactured/designed machines and will continue the good fight.
If it is not properly made, it goes back. Every time.

Would this apply if you bought a saw table and it wasn't as good as an Altendorf, would it still go back?
I don't see anything in your post about comparing what you've bought with the price you paid for it.
John

 

[Alf]

<Winston Spencer Churchill>
Mn'ah. We will fight them, on the internet. We will fight them, at the shows. We will fight them in the shops and via mail order. We shall nevah accept sloppy mitre gauges. In a thousand New Yankee Workshop's time, woodworkers will look back and say, "This was there finest effort to get a tool that did what it said on the box..."
</WSC>

Three choruses of "We're all going on a sawdust holiday" and a parade of fully equipped Norms with tool belts and routahs at the present.

Sorry, I'm going to have to wipe away a tear or two...

Cheers, Alf :wink:

Feeling a little silly; I do apologise.

 

[Anonymous]

Would this apply if you bought a saw table and it wasn't as good as an Altendorf, would it still go back?
I don't see anything in your post about comparing what you've bought with the price you paid for it.
John

John, What is an Altendorf???
If I bought an LN and it wasn't up to scratch (blasphemy!) it would go back.
Clearly price is an issue, i.e. the more you paid for it, the more times you take it back :lol: :lol: :lol:

I am not a serial returner nor stupid. If I buy cheap rubbish, I expect to get cheap rubbish. If I pay for a well known manufacturer's product and spend a few quid, then I expect it to work properly.

John, you are wrong with your final comment as I was very careful to mention cheap imported junk in my earlier post.

And I quote " am clearly NOT talking about these chinese etc. imports as they don't give a toss about the consumer"

Alf :lol: :lol: :roll: :shock:

Cheers

Tony

 

[johnelliott]

Tony, you have given examples of equipment at both ends of the spectrum, cheap imported junk at one end and LN at the other. What I am saying is that most of the tricky decisions will be to do with the stuff in the middle.
John