Guitar 2

[richarddownunder]

Hi All

well, it's taken over a year to get this finished so thought I'd post the result even though it is far, far from perfect. Although there were a few power-tool moments, the vast majority of the build was with hand tools, planing to thickness, shaping the neck with spokeshave and rasps, bending the sides by hand over a bending iron, chiselling, scraping etc etc. I should have done a WIP, but always forgot the camera at critical points. The finish may not be at a pro-level (wiped shellac) but the main thing is the sound, which is pretty good I think. Just before the final assembly, I knocked the finished neck (it's a bolt on-bolt off design) off the bench on to the workshop/garage floor. It hit the vice on the way down and dinged the wood. However, if I hadn't had carpet on the concrete floor, it would have been far worse. Most of the dents came out with water and a bit of extra sanding. That was the second time it hit the floor actually, so I was very glad for the carpet! So, a few snaps of the finished instrument with a few on the journey...

Cheers
Richard

 

[Droogs]

congratulations on finishing it, looks very good. I hope it was an enjoyable build. I commend the use of handtools for the build. Do you feel you'll do more or was this one enough?

 

[tony_s]

I too would be interested to know if you'd do it again.
Have you taken a look at susan gardener's guitar build on YouTube? A real journey and something I have found very interesting; if you google "sugar sg1" it'll get you there

 

[custard]

Amazing work, you must be very proud (and rightly so)!

=D>

How many hours do you think went into it?

 

[richarddownunder]

Thanks for the comments. No, I haven't seen the You tube clip...I go and hunt it out later. Would I do it again? Well, this is my second guitar so I have. The first made according to the Kinkeed book, this one more aligned with the Gilet/Gore book. This one was more complex.

I find the big challenge in this sort of thing is understanding. It is one thing to be shown how to do something, it's another to figure it out from a book. Knowing what is critically important (like cross-grain gluing at 45% RH) and what is just a preference of the authors - it is a very light and highly stressed structure after all. Getting the steps in exactly the right order when the book moves from one design to another, all with different critical features and measurements. So, thinking about it took longer than making it. Also, making the jigs is almost as time-consuming as the build itself. So, very hard to put hours to it. As I have the jigs (radiussed dishes especially) now, I may as well have another crack - but not immediately. I'd like to try a classical but the jigs are most likely different, certainly the mold is.

I think if you set up a workshop to build guitars and make a few parts at a time, have the wood all equilibrated and ready to go, have a few mechanised steps and industrial tools like a thicknesser, it becomes less daunting. Someone said, after 20 guitars, you know what you are doing. I guess then, the finishing and subtle design detail is what takes a lot of time, fancy inlay, rosettes, complex bracing and more elaborate materials like carbon fibre etc... I'm very much still learning the basics of getting a decent neck/body joint!

As for proud, I'd say more relieved that it is finished and works. Plenty to improve on next time. In the meantime, I'll make something simpler like a coffee table!

Cheers
Richard

 

[Phil Pascoe]

How do you attain 45% RH? Even indoors in bone dry weather here it's rare it goes below 65% - 70% (82% atm.) and from what I know of NZ (my sister, bil and children are naturalised Kiwis ( jafas) ) it's pretty damp there too.

 

[thetyreman]

that guitar looks good to me for a second one!

the quality of the craftsmanship, woods and stringing really shines through, bet it sounds amazing as well, I'd be interested in hearing how it sounds.

remember what confucius said 'It does not matter how slowly you go as long as you do not stop'

 

[richarddownunder]

RH varies in our place from about 45% to 65% or so. I ended up buying a dehumidifier (justifying by lending to my mum during winter as her place is damp).

All the guitar books I have read specify that the RH is tightly controlled and 40-45% is optimal. Luthier workshops are, ideally, air conditioned to this level. This avoids the risk - well reduces the risk of the soundboard and back cracking if it is left in very dry or warm conditions. I think the wood is less affected by temp at these moisture levels. There is a lot of cross grain gluing and I gather that wood can withstand compressive forces (during swelling) better than contraction. The changing RH certainly causes the soundboard to move around quite noticeably (changes the radius) and that affects the angle at the soundboard (or back) and sides during glue-up. I guess swelling will cause the guitar to 'belly' more - the expansion of the wood will increase the curvature of the soundboard and back. I suppose the design accommodates that. A domed soundboard will probably have a bit of ability to cope with shrinkage too whereas a flat soundboard will split if the RH drops well below the glue-up RH.

That's my understanding anyway. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Cheers
Richard

 

[DannyEssex]

Well done!!! That is amazing for your second guitar. I have recently thought about building one and have been watching loads on YouTube. I don't have the desire to play one, I just like the idea or building one

 

[D_W]

Excellent, Richard. How does it sound?

I'm currently working on my second guitar, too, but an easier build (a telecaster) and - maybe there's something in the air - but I've dropped the neck twice, too. Both times, it's landed right on the end of the peghead and done only enough damage to require a touch up of the profile.

I am going to move on to making a few flat top acoustics next, and given the guitars that I've had (which is many), the strongest (volume-wise) has been a bourgeois - with the bolt on style neck. I think the controversy about the necks ability to transmit sound is over, it was a dandy guitar, and a neck reset is a third of the effort vs. a dovetail guitar.

 

[richarddownunder]

Well done!!! That is amazing for your second guitar. I have recently thought about building one and have been watching loads on YouTube. I don't have the desire to play one, I just like the idea or building one

Thanks. I don't play (properly) either but enjoy trying to strum a few chords. It is definitely a satisfying project that you can get your teeth into and it's great for developing confidence with hand tools (for me I hadn't used spokeshaves much before). However, to make a half decent job, there are quite a few jigs and bits to make so it is quite time consuming from beginning to end. It can be stressful too as you sink more and more hours into a small and fairly fragile structure!

Having played around with the 2 guitars I have made, I think I actually prefer the mellower tones of the Kinkeed design myself (and OM shape, father than the dreadnought). Of course, that may be strings, wood choice etc as well as shape/construction. I do prefer the Gore bolt on/off neck approach though.

Cheers
Richard

 

[richarddownunder]

Excellent, Richard. How does it sound?

I'm currently working on my second guitar, too, but an easier build (a telecaster) and - maybe there's something in the air - but I've dropped the neck twice, too. Both times, it's landed right on the end of the peghead and done only enough damage to require a touch up of the profile.

I am going to move on to making a few flat top acoustics next, and given the guitars that I've had (which is many), the strongest (volume-wise) has been a bourgeois - with the bolt on style neck. I think the controversy about the necks ability to transmit sound is over, it was a dandy guitar, and a neck reset is a third of the effort vs. a dovetail guitar.

Thanks. The sound is BIG. As just mentioned, it's a bit less mellow than my previous OM, but not being a decent guitarist, I'm not exactly sure what sound to be striving for and whether this is an improvement or not. It plays in tune very well and when tuning, each note seems rock solid stable.

This particular bolt on/off neck design is quite a bit of extra work. The fretboard is not glued to the soundboard and the whole thing is held together with 4 bolts. I think it's a great design and an evolution of, and improvement on, the Cumpiano design. The obvious advantage is that you can remove the neck entirely very easily. It is also a lot stronger.

I'm now quite keen to try a classical nylon string. But that probably requires a bunch more different jigs. Not sure I have that much enthusiasm right now!

Cheers
Richard

 

[D_W]

If you've got big sound, the note separation that you like (as in, when you're playing, if you hit a single string in the middle of the others resonating, it stands out), and it's balanced from top to bottom, then that's really as good as it's going to get.

After that, it's all taste (darker, brighter, more overtones (rosewood) or more fundamental (mahogany)).

It looks extremely nice. I'm impressed with all of the jigging, as i'm very lazy when it comes to that (it's unavoidable for gluing braces as far as I can tell, though).

My bourgeois needed a neck reset at 10 years old. It had been radically scalloped by the maker to get bigger sound (which it had, but at a cost of some top strength). I ended up selling it to someone who wanted to take it on instead of getting it fixed and selling it (it wasn't a detriment because of the maker's reputation). If yours needs that, all of the work will pay off. If it doesn't, it was a good hedge, anyway!

As is my MO, I've bought a lot of guitars, and sold a lot of them - looking for something that satisfies curiosity. I haven't bought as many acoustics (maybe 8), but have played for a long time - long before building. Electric guitars are easy to have around. Their movement is minor in a decade. Acoustics vary a lot - only three of the 8 guitars that I've had sounded big, two moved a lot and quickly, one I just got recently so, we'll see. One of the ones that was a dud was a Martin D-28, straight from the factory. Another an Eastman D10, both of those have accolades, but they are production and don't get the attention that you gave your guitar. I think they vary a lot and you can get dark quiet ones - the work that makes them less stable costs money (scalloping, thicknessing the top down to a certain stiffness, etc) - so the less expensive darker guitars often hold up better. Once you have one big clear one in mahogany or one big ringer with rosewood, the ones that aren't big come in, and they go out pretty quickly.

 

[richarddownunder]

Thanks for the compliments. I really need someone to play it who knows what to listen for. Fortunately, I know a few very good guitarists so I'll get it tested out! My personal preference seems to be for a less bright sound. This one is mahogany. The last one was Tasmanian blackwood. Certainly the mahogany is heavier, stronger and denser (and a bit harder to bend). Anyway, I'll report back when I have a more trained ear assess it! As for jigs, the mold and radiused dishes are pretty essential. Making jigs to help with the routing of bindings also helps a lot. The Gore- Gilet design is very good. I built the first one with minimal jigs and the accuracy suffered so thought I'd do it 'properly' second time round. I'm sure it has helped.

Cheers
Richard

 

[richarddownunder]

Well, took it into the local "Rockshop" - the guitarists there had a play and the verdict was that it was "lively with great intonation". So that was encouraging. Also got a case that fitted like a glove.

 

[D_W]

Great intonation is important for obvious reasons (how can you correct it on a fixed bridge if it's not right? You have to remove and move the bridge).

There's a now defunct custom guitar maker here in the states who had a reputation for getting the bridge placed poorly. Their guitars would play well, great sound, but couldn't be used for anything other than bedroom practice or open air playing because the intonation was off (can't record with them or use them in a setting with good sound).