Following on from the "Chalenges?!" thread, Segmented Vase

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bwlossie

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Market Deeping. Peterborough
Good afternoon,
I do not normally post pictures, but after the comments in the Chalenges thread I will put on up and see how we go.

Solid Oak Base
750 Open Segments Oak/Sapele
30 Closed Segments Top Ring
Very tedious cutting the segments but I think the effort was worthwhile
 

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How large is the item? Looks a good result, but I imagine that the glueup was a lengthy process!
 
Not something that I have tried myself but I do tip my hat to those that do this type of work you must have the patience of a saint to do this work.
Do you use a template to work out the pattern so that you get it complete all the way around?
Well done on the piece and glad to see you posted a picture.
 
Sorry, should have thought to put up sizes.
11.5" high x 5.5" wide.
Could not do Golden Mean otherwise the pattern would have distorted.
Had to make a steady rest when almost at the top.
Glue up was very tedious, especially this weather. I am in a concrete garage and very cold. I use a Super Ser on full.
I use MS Excel to design the pattern. Long, long job, and as you say Dalboy takes a lot of fettling to get the pattern to wrap.
 
I like the colour balance, enough contrast to give it impact but not over fussy.
I admire the work effort to construct and the nervous tension that it must generate when taking the finishing cuts.

Are you placing the pieces freehand or using a holding spacing template?
Do you glue up horizontally on the lathe or with the chuck vertical off the lathe?
Do you glue segments end grain to end grain or side grain?
 
Hi CHJ,
I have an index plate with various numbers of spaces. I built a glueing table which sits on the lathe bed and starts from centre line. I then measure from edge of table to outside diameter. So........3” equals 6” ring.
The segments are then glued on individually rotating the index plate as I go. All done on the lathe. You will gather from that the lathe is out of action till the piece is finished. Indexing is lost if taken off lathe. It CAN be refitted but not worth the effort. Just plough on and get it finished.
 
I glue on about 4/5 rings and then start turning inside the vase the first 2/3 rings.
Then glue up more and “walk” it up as it goes.
The segments are all side grain glue surfaces.
As said previously only about 3 rings can be glued up per day due to the cold weather and setting time.
I leave the outside till the end.
The steady rest goes on about half way up.
When all glued up and inside turned I use a cone to support when finishing outside.
Sanding sealer, a thin spread of shellac and then Briwax on top.
Shellac applied with q tip in between segments.
 
bwlossie":27687dj3 said:
….Shellac applied with q tip in between segments.
Thanks for the details, much as I has assumed, must admit I'd sidestep the hand application of finish and use the more expensive route of spray can sealer and finish.

Have you acquired a feel for minimum thickness of segments that hold up without due risk and frustration?
 
Chas,
I understand where you are coming from with the spray can but....there is no finish on the segments when applied so after the outside finish the internal gaps come out a slightly different colour when sprayed.
Happy amateur,
I am subscribed to Earls you tube site.
He is VERY helpful. I have even got his “cheat sheets”.
 
Chas,
I have never done very thin delicate turning. Not against it but to be frank to me it is made of wood and as such I like to feel “solid”
My walls are usually 1/4”.
 
Lovely segmented turning .... but we'll never find it in a years time because of the thread title. :)
 
Bwlossie, nice job. Your construction is exactly the same method that I use, gluing up on the lathe and doing a little roughing out of the inside every few levels. I have never had a problem reindexing the chuck if I’ve removed it from the lathe. You just need to be guided by the last ring you stuck on and push your gluing platform carefully into position with a segment resting on the platform. The chuck has to be tightened by the handwheel of course as you can’t move the chuck. On tallish structures I’ve also built them in two pieces, from the bottom up and from the top down, then glue the two parts together. I love the challenge of segmented turning, it sometimes keeps me awake at night trying to figure out how to achieve something. For working out patterns I use a very simple method using graph paper to draw a matrix of say 24 columns or whatever by however many levels there are. You can then shade in your pattern and keep altering it until the required patern flows round and joins up correctly. More difficult to put into words than it is to do. What glue do you use? I use Tightbond 2 now although I used to use Tightbond Original. Somebody once suggested using white PVA on open segment work as it dries more clear and requires less clean up. I’ve tried it but I can’t say I noticed any difference. I’m very comfortable with Tightbond, and I’ve only ever had one blow up on me when I was getting a little adventurous :lol:
 
Hi John,
Yes, I too, Use Titebond 2. In the summer months it is great, I am sanding 30 mins after fitting the last segment.
As for the pattern, that is why I use Excel. My son made me a blank page with the cells split so the segments are over each other when they are marked on the sheet. (second half of one cell plus first half of next cell equals present segment)
Easy then to keep track of number of segments per row and highlight them all if a mistake is made to quickly delete and start again.
 
It looks like you are using an electronic version of my paper! I actually have one of 5he American segmenting software. It’s realy clever and produces cutting lists, but in truth it takes longer fooling about at my computer and I’d rather be turning and making. I very much like the approach that Earl Ramunsson takes in Earls little workshop. Rather than create a cutting list where every ring is made from a different width of board maximising use of timber, I would rather build rings from the same sizes stock, or at least a small number of different sizes suitable for the shape required. This will use a little more stock but saves a good deal of time, and usually allows me to go “off piste” on my design should I feel the need. How are you cutting segments for closed rings?
 
I use a compound chop saw for cutting segments.
I have made an adjustable stop from threaded rod. Runs through 2 nuts about 3” apart with a wooden block on the end. This I use for edge length.
I took a full day to set up the saw and now the normally not too accurate angle gauge is spot on.
As I stated earlier Earl sent me a copy of his “cheat sheets”
Ring diameter, no of segments, edge length, cutting angle, all done to 70% wood. This then determines the gap between segments.
 
That sounds like a good set up. I started out some years ago using a chop saw, as Dennis Keeling did in his book on the subject. I know he used a Festool Kapex, but I have never had the consistency that he managed. He also used a disk sander to complete each segment prior to ring building. I built his sanding jig and used that for a while and whilst the results were ok, it was very time consuming, and there was always the potential to actually make things worse if you got it wrong. I’ve never looked back since I followed Jerry Bennett’s instructions to build a “Wedgie Sled” as he calls it, basically a two fence sled for cutting segments. The first ring I cut on it was 48 segments, just as a trial, and it went together first time with no sanding (other than de-fuzzing the edges). I make all my rings that way now, and they always fit without gaps and without sanding. The repeatability is amazing.
Three or four years ago I was at a show, it was either Yandles or Turners Retreat, can’t remember which, and I got talking to an old guy who had segmented some totally mind blowing constructions and turnings. He was a bit older than me, must have been in his 80s and we got talking about his work. He told me he cut all his segments on a small table top bandsaw, and he only one’d the cheapest blades he could get. I think they were Silverline of all things. He bought them 10 at a time for peanuts. It was a humbling experience.
 
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