Benchwayze
Established Member
DTR":1ui4kafp said:Benchwayze":1ui4kafp said:
A cobbler... of course! Thanks for the tip
My pleasure Dave.
Good Luck with the search. Hope you don't expend too much shoe leather yourself! 8)
Vices - Fitting a Record Bench Vice
- Thread starter paulm
- Start date
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My pleasure Dave.
Good Luck with the search. Hope you don't expend too much shoe leather yourself! 8)
boomerang bender
Established Member
Thanks paulm a really good set of instructions with excellent photos i have one to fit and will use your instructions i like the bit about laminating the jaws to give extra strength.
Cheers,
Boomerang Bender
Cheers,
Boomerang Bender
paulm
IG paulm_outdoors
You're welcome BB
Just noticed the date of the original thread ! Ten years on and still in regular use, no changes or repairs needed, the bench even survived moving to a new workshop too and fits right in
Just noticed the date of the original thread ! Ten years on and still in regular use, no changes or repairs needed, the bench even survived moving to a new workshop too and fits right in
[ATTACH=full]75769[/ATTACH]
Just built a workbench and have bought a record 52 1/2 to fit as a front vise.
Unfortunately I am struggling to get my head round how to fit it .as my bench is a pretty different build type with an MDF work surface on top of the frame.
Any ideas v welcome
Just built a workbench and have bought a record 52 1/2 to fit as a front vise.
Unfortunately I am struggling to get my head round how to fit it .as my bench is a pretty different build type with an MDF work surface on top of the frame.
Any ideas v welcome
Attachments
Benchwayze
Established Member
Cus,
Your benchtop doesn't look to be thick enough. Benches get a pounding and the thicker the top the more pounding they will take, the thickness being more able to absorb shock.
Is the frame beneath a box-frame construction,(A good plan) or is it just cross members?
Nothing wrong with MDF for a top, but I would have gone to a timber yard that cuts sheet material for you, and had two sheets of 25mm MDF cut into 8 foot by 2 footers, and glued them together. Into a 4" thick top (Near enough) . You'd need help moving it round mind, but it would be heavy, rigid and would take the pounding.
If you stick with what you have, you might need to use packing between the vice and the underside of the bench. In which case try to use hardwood and laminate it as necessary. Work out the dimensions from the vice and make the packing accordingly.
At risk of starting a debate, I would fit the vice with wooden cheeks, arranged so the rear cheek is flush with the top surface of the bench.
You could then fit the vice to the underside; either routing out a housing for it, or using packing pieces between the vice and the underside of the benchtop.
To hold the vice in position when fixing through the front, just capture two 4 x 2s in the vice, so they rest on the floor, and keep the vice at the required height against the bench, while you secure it.
HTH
John
Your benchtop doesn't look to be thick enough. Benches get a pounding and the thicker the top the more pounding they will take, the thickness being more able to absorb shock.
Is the frame beneath a box-frame construction,(A good plan) or is it just cross members?
Nothing wrong with MDF for a top, but I would have gone to a timber yard that cuts sheet material for you, and had two sheets of 25mm MDF cut into 8 foot by 2 footers, and glued them together. Into a 4" thick top (Near enough) . You'd need help moving it round mind, but it would be heavy, rigid and would take the pounding.
If you stick with what you have, you might need to use packing between the vice and the underside of the bench. In which case try to use hardwood and laminate it as necessary. Work out the dimensions from the vice and make the packing accordingly.
At risk of starting a debate, I would fit the vice with wooden cheeks, arranged so the rear cheek is flush with the top surface of the bench.
You could then fit the vice to the underside; either routing out a housing for it, or using packing pieces between the vice and the underside of the benchtop.
To hold the vice in position when fixing through the front, just capture two 4 x 2s in the vice, so they rest on the floor, and keep the vice at the required height against the bench, while you secure it.
HTH
John
+1 to what John said.
Also, a glance at this old thread might help. I posted the instructions from Planecraft on fitting a 52 1/2, showing that it needs about 4" of wood above the bars, which you could build up locally or as wide as you like.
total-depth-clearance-required-for-bench-vise-t77275.html
You may need to alter your shelf, unless you are left handed and want the vice on the right.
Also, a glance at this old thread might help. I posted the instructions from Planecraft on fitting a 52 1/2, showing that it needs about 4" of wood above the bars, which you could build up locally or as wide as you like.
total-depth-clearance-required-for-bench-vise-t77275.html
You may need to alter your shelf, unless you are left handed and want the vice on the right.
Jacob
Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
Even easier to fit if you just turn the bench upside down and prop it up on saw horses
Two other links that might be of some help:
Record's guide to vice mounting reproduced on the Woodcraft site, http://www2.woodcraft.com/pdf/77A01.pdf This is an excerpt from "The Workbench Book" by Scott Landis which is recommended reading (although IMO Lon Schleining's book on the subject should be prioritised).
Faithfull's guide to mounting a quick-release vice, https://www.faithfulltools.com/support/ ... h_vice.pdf
In terms of what way to mount your vice, I used to be a fan of the idea of mounting a vice such that the rear was flush with the apron/front edge of the worktop, apart from anything I thought it just looked lovely and neat! But Robert Wearing advises against it with examples of the many things you can do when the rear jaw is mounted proud, and Paul Sellers has demonstrated why this is advantageous too just in terms of handling longer stock during clamping and unclamping. Obviously not everyone agrees but the opinion of these two taken together forms a fairly weighty argument in favour of mounting the vice this way and not flush/embedded.
Record's guide to vice mounting reproduced on the Woodcraft site, http://www2.woodcraft.com/pdf/77A01.pdf This is an excerpt from "The Workbench Book" by Scott Landis which is recommended reading (although IMO Lon Schleining's book on the subject should be prioritised).
Faithfull's guide to mounting a quick-release vice, https://www.faithfulltools.com/support/ ... h_vice.pdf
In terms of what way to mount your vice, I used to be a fan of the idea of mounting a vice such that the rear was flush with the apron/front edge of the worktop, apart from anything I thought it just looked lovely and neat! But Robert Wearing advises against it with examples of the many things you can do when the rear jaw is mounted proud, and Paul Sellers has demonstrated why this is advantageous too just in terms of handling longer stock during clamping and unclamping. Obviously not everyone agrees but the opinion of these two taken together forms a fairly weighty argument in favour of mounting the vice this way and not flush/embedded.
Except you can pack the workpiece off if you choose to, but you can't go the other way.
Jacob
Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
Yes exactly.phil.p":3i1zjny5 said:
If it's flush you can have the whole apron as the back jaw. Can be really useful.
Wearing is not too good on benches I notice (just bought several of his books). Gurus should be taken with a pinch of salt!
Ditto "The Workbench Book" by Scott Landis and the Chris Schwartz book - both completely omit any detail or reference to the standard perfect bench - they are just into fancy novelty benches for the gentleman amateur!
Sellers is good on benches.
scooby
Established Member
I made a bench, copying Paul Sellers first bench build, back in 2012 (iirc). The thing is still rock solid. I also used his method of vice mounting. It is fine, but sometimes I wish I had flush mounted it so the apron was the rear jaw.
Apologies if this has been covered before but this thread is current and relevant to me at the moment so rather than search for ages....
I'd like to fit a vice flush but before I go ahead and cut the recess I'd like to check I have it right.
My bench end. The oak end will be glued and dowelled. The vice is actually going to sit on the right side not the left that you can see prepped. Don't ask it just feels right to me. I cut the left one a long time ago because I read it in a book. Now I just do what feels right.
Got to thinkin' .... The inside angle is 90 degrees. Ok.
But the outside angle is less. Now I know the jaw needs to pinch and was designed this way by Bears of Bigger Brain.
My thinking is I cut the void for the rear jaw equal depth to allow for the jaws to pinch so it closes inside the void to the wood and the outside jaw sits flat.
Ie: In line with the engineers square not the front face of the rear jaw in the pic above...
Regular uniform recess for the front jaw liner too.
Can any Bigger Boys confirm?
The link from Landis that Ed posted seems to confirm my thinking.
'If you let the rear jaw of the vise into the front edge or underside
of the bench, allow a 1/16" gap above the casting. The spacer is
bound to compress when you attach the vise, and this gap will
close. Without the gap, the wood may buckle above the jaw and
have to be planed off.'
I'm not being daft am I? I just don't have any more oak. I need to get this one right.
Cheers as always,
Chris
Next Day EDIT: I was being daft after all I think. I cut this rebate out the oak end today. Became obvious in practice that the Landis comment meant 1/16th gap above the top edge of the vice. In practice the plausibility of me matching that slope in the 3rd pic above accurately (and in one attempt) meant I just pretended it wasn't an issue and cut the rebate out to the same depth. :-# Don't tell anyone. Sure it will be fine. I can always plane the outer jaw cover a little skewed to counteract it if necessary. If I aim for dead square it should be perfect lol.
Just the outer jaw to cut then bolt it on. Jobsagoodun.
Still be interested to know the proper solution if anyone can enlighten me.
Cheers.
I'd like to fit a vice flush but before I go ahead and cut the recess I'd like to check I have it right.
My bench end. The oak end will be glued and dowelled. The vice is actually going to sit on the right side not the left that you can see prepped. Don't ask it just feels right to me. I cut the left one a long time ago because I read it in a book. Now I just do what feels right.
Got to thinkin' .... The inside angle is 90 degrees. Ok.
But the outside angle is less. Now I know the jaw needs to pinch and was designed this way by Bears of Bigger Brain.
My thinking is I cut the void for the rear jaw equal depth to allow for the jaws to pinch so it closes inside the void to the wood and the outside jaw sits flat.
Ie: In line with the engineers square not the front face of the rear jaw in the pic above...
Regular uniform recess for the front jaw liner too.
Can any Bigger Boys confirm?
The link from Landis that Ed posted seems to confirm my thinking.
'If you let the rear jaw of the vise into the front edge or underside
of the bench, allow a 1/16" gap above the casting. The spacer is
bound to compress when you attach the vise, and this gap will
close. Without the gap, the wood may buckle above the jaw and
have to be planed off.'
I'm not being daft am I? I just don't have any more oak. I need to get this one right.
Cheers as always,
Chris
Next Day EDIT: I was being daft after all I think. I cut this rebate out the oak end today. Became obvious in practice that the Landis comment meant 1/16th gap above the top edge of the vice. In practice the plausibility of me matching that slope in the 3rd pic above accurately (and in one attempt) meant I just pretended it wasn't an issue and cut the rebate out to the same depth. :-# Don't tell anyone. Sure it will be fine. I can always plane the outer jaw cover a little skewed to counteract it if necessary. If I aim for dead square it should be perfect lol.
Just the outer jaw to cut then bolt it on. Jobsagoodun.
Still be interested to know the proper solution if anyone can enlighten me.
Cheers.
Benchwayze
Established Member
I agree with Paul Sellers's bench as a good standard; I just don't like an apron on a bench. It reminds me of a workshop where I was once employed; I didn't much like the place; or was it the hidebound work's manager? :mrgreen:
I do rather like this bench as a starter, designed with power tools in mind I think, but certainly within the scope of hand-tools..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXEvRoW8lY8
I would like a thicker top, and maybe at least, 100mm square legs. My local yard provides lovely, clean pressure treated timber in this size, so maybe I am lucky there.
The top is made up to 100mm easily, by using another full sheet of plywood; for the sake of a few pounds more, it would be massive (NPI) improvement.
Regards
John
I do rather like this bench as a starter, designed with power tools in mind I think, but certainly within the scope of hand-tools..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXEvRoW8lY8
I would like a thicker top, and maybe at least, 100mm square legs. My local yard provides lovely, clean pressure treated timber in this size, so maybe I am lucky there.
The top is made up to 100mm easily, by using another full sheet of plywood; for the sake of a few pounds more, it would be massive (NPI) improvement.
Regards
John
scooby
Established Member
Benchwayze":2sm4xhj8 said:
I agree with the apron comment. They make the bench rock solid but they are a pita when I want to cramp something to the top (a temporary stop, etc) and you have to use a massive f-cramp or sash cramp. Allows makes a raising bench dogs from underneath a pain (in the back).
On the flip side, you dont need to have a thick top which is the reason I made the Sellers type. I had a few of 8"x2" left over from a job so used them for the top.
Next bench will definitely be a thicker top (multiple layers of mdf or 4"x2" or something like that) and no aprons.
boomdocker
New member
Great guide - just got a Record 52 1/2 vise and was scratching my head as to how I could mount flush under the bench with those darn reinforcing ribs in the way....now I know
John Hall
Established Member
Just a note, the threads in the Record vice jaws are all BSW, but UNC will fit..
