Help required with raised panels.

[LFS19]

I'm making some raised panel internal doors for the house.
I'm far from an experienced woodworker, so with this being a raised panel door I'm in need of a bit of assistance.

I've knocked up the frame easy enough - mortice and tenons, the only joint I'm capable of doing well so far! :lol: and I've cut all the grooves for the panels to fit into.
Now I'm up to the panels I really need to think about what I'm doing because I've never done it before.
There doesn't seem to be much info online about making internal doors from scratch, though I did find this video by Paul sellers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAezwdKjN2Y) where he teaches you how to raise a panel with a No.4.

This was appealing because I don't own any of the machines people typically use to raise a panel. A lot of people online seem do them with a table saw (I have a circular saw but I imagine that would be very ungainly), and while I have a very good Elu router, it's quarter collet; so won't be taking any of those big, kitchen fitters bits.
While the Paul sellers vid is appealing, I imagine it is no where near as easy as it looks. getting those edges crisp and the corners of the panel meeting the corners of the board I fear is beyond my skill level.

I'm not really sure what I'm asking for, but I guess just some advice and tips about how to tackle this. What would be the best method to approach this?

Thanks!

 

[dzj]

If I understood correctly, this is your situation: No table saw, router too small, hand tool skill set not adequate.

If you plan to paint everything, you could glue up the panels from three pieces of 1/2" mdf.
The outer two layers you can bevel or use some router bit to liven them up some.
If you're considering wood, I'd fashion some kind of temporary table saw from that circ. saw you have
and use that to make the raised panels.
Good luck.

 

[LFS19]

If I understood correctly, this is your situation: No table saw, router too small, hand tool skill set not adequate.

If you plan to paint everything, you could glue up the panels from three pieces of 1/2" mdf.
The outer two layers you can bevel or use some router bit to liven them up some.
If you're considering wood, I'd fashion some kind of temporary table saw from that circ. saw you have
and use that to make the raised panels.
Good luck.

I did wonder about MDF but was unsure about how to implement it best - so thanks for the sugestion.
As far as the table saw/circular saw suggestion, the circular saw does tilt, which would theoretically allow me to raise a panel. Presumably to make it into a makeshift table saw I'd be building an MDF surfaced table and mounting it underneath. I'd have to make sure I left enough of a gap to tilt the saw.

Thanks again.

 

[pollys13]

I think would be lot safer to try to find a forum member near you. Who has the right kit and ask him to knock them up for you, perhaps a few beers in return, repay the favour somehow..

 

[AndyT]

I reckon your best option is just to follow what Paul Sellers does in the video.
It gets more complicated if you want a square edge to the central part (a "raised and fielded panel") but the hand tool method has the great benefit that you can see what you are doing and take it at your own pace.

Try it out on some offcuts first and get some practice in.

 

[custard]

You're right to identify this as something that can quickly go pear shaped. It's pretty easy to either end up with a panel that's too loose and rattles in the frame, or a panel that's too tight and splits the groove open.

I suggest you draw a full size plan (you can use a sheet of play or a roll of wallpaper lining paper), lift the dimensions from that and transfer them to your panel in pencil. Then you plane down to the lines and stop, do a test assembly, and then shave off another plane stroke or two to adjust the fit.

It's the same as chamfering or bevelling the underside of a table top, but you have the advantage that with a panel you're not quite so anxious about spelching out with the plane, but it's still a good idea to follow best chamfering/bevelling practise by chiselling off the corner and planing the end grain first. This is what that process looks like,

Mark out the job in pencil, if you use a knife or a marking gauge you'll still be left with tiny indentation when you've finished planing. Then relieve the corner with a chisel.

Start on the end grain and plane down so you stay central between the pencilled tram lines

Try and take long, constant planing strokes so that your chamfer or bevel remains parallel and mid way between the pencil lines,

The idea is to hit the two pencil lines at the same time, and remove them both together. This job is a bevel on a table top, so there's a "safe" pencil line and a "dangerous" pencil line (the dangerous line is getting close to where the legs and aprons will be, so I really don't want to cross that). But on a panel you want to hit both at the same time.

Planing end grain cleanly and neatly is more demanding than planing long grain, you'll also find you're blunting your iron much, much faster; like four or five times faster than you're used to. If you're working hardwoods then I'll certainly be honing after at least each panel. You'll get further with soft wood but at the first sign of tear out or spelching then stop and re-hone.

 

[LFS19]

I think would be lot safer to try to find a forum member near you. Who has the right kit and ask him to knock them up for you, perhaps a few beers in return, repay the favour somehow..

yeah, I might end up looking into that option to be honest. Thanks for the reply

 

[LFS19]

I reckon your best option is just to follow what Paul Sellers does in the video.
It gets more complicated if you want a square edge to the central part (a "raised and fielded panel") but the hand tool method has the great benefit that you can see what you are doing and take it at your own pace.

Try it out on some offcuts first and get some practice in.

I mean there's no harm in trying I guess. I suppose I could just keep practicing until I'm good enough!

Still not quite sure what you mean by 'raised and fielded panel' and with the square edge to central. Do you simply mean the edge of the board being square to the panel?

Cheers

 

[LFS19]

You're right to identify this as something that can quickly go pear shaped. It's pretty easy to either end up with a panel that's too loose and rattles in the frame, or a panel that's too tight and splits the groove open.

I suggest you draw a full size plan (you can use a sheet of play or a roll of wallpaper lining paper), lift the dimensions from that and transfer them to your panel in pencil. Then you plane down to the lines and stop, do a test assembly, and then shave off another plane stroke or two to adjust the fit.

It's the same as chamfering or bevelling the underside of a table top, but you have the advantage that with a panel you're not quite so anxious about spelching out with the plane, but it's still a good idea to follow best chamfering/bevelling practise by chiselling off the corner and planing the end grain first. This is what that process looks like,

Mark out the job in pencil, if you use a knife or a marking gauge you'll still be left with tiny indentation when you've finished planing. Then relieve the corner with a chisel.


Start on the end grain and plane down so you stay central between the pencilled tram lines


Try and take long, constant planing strokes so that your chamfer or bevel remains parallel and mid way between the pencil lines,


The idea is to hit the two pencil lines at the same time, and remove them both together. This job is a bevel on a table top, so there's a "safe" pencil line and a "dangerous" pencil line (the dangerous line is getting close to where the legs and aprons will be, so I really don't want to cross that). But on a panel you want to hit both at the same time.


Planing end grain cleanly and neatly is more demanding than planing long grain, you'll also find you're blunting your iron much, much faster; like four or five times faster than you're used to. If you're working hardwoods then I'll certainly be honing after at least each panel. You'll get further with soft wood but at the first sign of tear out or spelching then stop and re-hone.

Awesome write up Custard, thanks so much! That was really helpful.
I'm only using pine so hopefully it shouldn't be as demanding on the plane. What size plane do you recommend? I have a Jack and a 4; Paul Sellers was using a 4 but seen as you mentioned the long and constant strokes I'm wondering whether the Jack might be easier for me.

Thanks again.

 

[thetyreman]

You're right to identify this as something that can quickly go pear shaped. It's pretty easy to either end up with a panel that's too loose and rattles in the frame, or a panel that's too tight and splits the groove open.

I suggest you draw a full size plan (you can use a sheet of play or a roll of wallpaper lining paper), lift the dimensions from that and transfer them to your panel in pencil. Then you plane down to the lines and stop, do a test assembly, and then shave off another plane stroke or two to adjust the fit.

It's the same as chamfering or bevelling the underside of a table top, but you have the advantage that with a panel you're not quite so anxious about spelching out with the plane, but it's still a good idea to follow best chamfering/bevelling practise by chiselling off the corner and planing the end grain first. This is what that process looks like,

Mark out the job in pencil, if you use a knife or a marking gauge you'll still be left with tiny indentation when you've finished planing. Then relieve the corner with a chisel.


Start on the end grain and plane down so you stay central between the pencilled tram lines


Try and take long, constant planing strokes so that your chamfer or bevel remains parallel and mid way between the pencil lines,


The idea is to hit the two pencil lines at the same time, and remove them both together. This job is a bevel on a table top, so there's a "safe" pencil line and a "dangerous" pencil line (the dangerous line is getting close to where the legs and aprons will be, so I really don't want to cross that). But on a panel you want to hit both at the same time.


Planing end grain cleanly and neatly is more demanding than planing long grain, you'll also find you're blunting your iron much, much faster; like four or five times faster than you're used to. If you're working hardwoods then I'll certainly be honing after at least each panel. You'll get further with soft wood but at the first sign of tear out or spelching then stop and re-hone.

Awesome write up Custard, thanks so much! That was really helpful.
I'm only using pine so hopefully it shouldn't be as demanding on the plane. What size plane do you recommend? I have a Jack and a 4; Paul Sellers was using a 4 but seen as you mentioned the long and constant strokes I'm wondering whether the Jack might be easier for me.

Thanks again.

depends on the panel size, if it's a big panel a no5 can be handy for keeping the line more straight, a no 4 or 4 1/2 is likely to be better though. Just remember to stop periodically and check you are always within the lines, when I first did it I found it hard to stay square, but it's just practice, might be a good idea to do a test panel first and you'll soon get the hang of it.

 

[Tasky]

Something I did recently was to clamp the wood flat on the bench, angle the plane along the edge to where I wanted it, then clamped a thin batten on the outside edge of the plane. That gave me a sort of runner jig, similar to how a shooting board works and helped me keep the plane at the right angle.
Turned out OK, but I daresay I'd have been fine doing it by hand, if I simply took it nice and slow as well.

 

[Mark Begbie]

Thanks Custard!

 

[urowho]

I've been experimenting with this. I've managed to do the fielded raised panels with a hand plane on test pieces. I'm unsure of timber dimensions though.

Rather than a door I'm making wall panelling (to dado height).

Any suggestions regarding dimensions for rails and stiles, vs panels?

Thanks in advance

 

[Steve Maskery]

It's many years since I have done this, but if you want to go down the router route, you can cut a simple fielded panel by mounting two ski runners on your fence bars.
With the workpiece flat on the bench, one ski rides on the top surface, the other on the bench, so that the whole tool sits at an angle. You can change that angle by altering the distance between the skis, and you cover the width of the field by moving the router along the bars.
Even a 1/4 router will take a 16mm cutter, maybe even bigger.
It's not quick, as you have to take small passes, but it does work.
If you want the panel raised as well, you will find that the edge becomes undercut, because of the tilt, so that will need cleaning up with a shoulder plane or similar.

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi there.

If you have a router; even a small one will do, fielded panels are easily done by hand.
I use a 5mm straight two-flute cutter. Set the router fence to the desired width and maximum depth of the fielding (The border) that you want, then rout all round to set the limits of the fielding. Don't forget; for a panelled interior door, your panels need to be thick enough to have the fielding on both sides. You can set the limits using a hand saw too of course, but using a router gives you something accurate to work against.

If you don't have a bench rebate plane, now is the time to get one on eBay; unless you can afford a Lie Nielsen . I always hand-plane plane the fielding , going across grain first. Sounds formidable? Well it is; but it's also a good workout, as Paul Sellers would attest. You will need a plane with an iron that goes the full width of the sole, such as a shoulder plane or a rebate plane , minus its fence. By the time you have made all the doors you will likely need in your home, you will know well how to make interior panelled doors!

Without wishing to teach egg-sucking, there is a difference between a raised and fielded panel, a raised panel, and a simple fielded panel.

Using a router with incremental depth adjusting is feasible, but it's repetitive and takes longer than hand planing. Paul Sellers I am sure would do the job by hand much quicker than all the fiddle of successive deeper cuts with a router!

Best of luck

John