Starting to work with metal?

[Fergal]

I wasn't sure If I could post the link, so thank you for doing so. I'm a member, (same username) Agree about the thickness of arc welding But it's a tool you can put away and not worry about wire rusting, gas leaking and stuff like that.

I have a TIG/MMA combo machine now so only use the arc function for thicker stuff, but you're right, an arc welder is the easiest and cheapest way to get into welding. Just remember to keep your welding rods dry as they absorb moisture and will be harder to light. I keep mine in the airing cupboard.

 

[Chris152]

I've told the boy about this thread and we're going to sit down and read through it together tonight. I'll gloss over my bit about buying a welder. So much info and so many possibilities now - I was really unsure where to start thinking about it but there are clear options that don't have to involve £££s which is brilliant. Tbh I don't know why he can't get excited about making things from wood - I've got the basic kit to make all kinds of things, but that's teenagers for you. :?

 

[Fergal]

I have two teenage boys and they're not interested in making anything anymore now that Fortnite has taken over. Last year the younger one made a few fidget spinners from wood and metal which he sold at school, but that fad didn't last long.

I only got into metalworking a couple of years ago, I still enjoy woodworking, but I find now if anything needs making I'm looking for an excuse to get the welder out. Metalworking is also more forgiving as if you mess up a joint you can just grind it off and have another go. It is also an excuse to acquire lots of new tools! These don't have to be expensive, I get most of mine from ebay, gumtree or car boot sales.

 

[Sideways]

There's a marvellous craft tradition of knife making in scandinavia. The suggestion to buy a blade and handle it is a good one. Kind of "forged in fire" round two with someone else having done the forging. Very good to learn that knives are tools and associated with crafts instead of the media ignorance that is universal these days.
Take a look at
https://www.thegoodstuffshop.dk/l/Knivbygning
for a marvellous range of scandinavian pattern blades from the simple and economical to a wide range of damascus.

 

[dynax]

for metal, have a look around and see if you can pick up an old caravan, this will give you some ali sheets, and a chassis which you can reuse for the kart, you might even get one for free,

 

[AES]

If it was me Chris, I wouldn't worry about "the boy" (hasn't the poor chap got a name?) preferring metal over wood. It sounds like he got the "hand work" bug in him (personally I don't like the "Maker" label, but that's just me) and the main thing is that you continue to help and encourage him.

Most likely he'll find out for himself that some things are better made in metal, others in wood (speaking very generally) and he'll "move back and forth" now and again, as and when he sees the different needs.

And you could also think about "moving over" a bit yourself too!

Without wishing to repeat myself, I hope you get a copy of that book I listed before, about making wood work devices by Robert Wearing. I only came across it myself quite recently, and was surprised to see how much of a wood/metal mixture there is in there - AND there's the bonus of making some things which you can both put to good use in "the wood working department".

And again, sorry to repeat, but that Stan Bray book I listed before is also well worth it - like the Wearing book it's got a lot of little gizmos he can make for future use in his metal working, AND it gives a very good overview of the whole subject, touching (albeit briefly) on just about every "branch" that's already been mentioned here in this thread. It sounds like his school is doing a good job of introducing him to the whole arena, but further background reading can't be bad.

Good luck and "more power to yer elbow "boy""! It's really great to hear of a young chap getting interested in "the old skills"!

 

[moretea]

Hi
Get an old land rover, for a project could be kept outside under a tarpaulin , plenty of ally & steel to work on, keep him busy for ages.

 

[Chris152]

Hi
Get an old land rover, for a project could be kept outside under a tarpaulin , plenty of ally & steel to work on, keep him busy for ages.

Now I like that idea!

Just an update - we read through last night. First thing, he was so pleased you'd all made such an effort to advise him. As am I. Second - we went online and ordered a blade from Heinnie Haynes (which it turns out is just down the road from here). No real metal working in that I guess, but he seemed keen on the idea of fashioning the handle to fit his hand, and on making a sheath from leather. All good skills.
Beyond that, he said he'd also like to try an axe, so that'll probably be next. Happy to say there's woodworking involved in both! ;-)
Hopefully that'll keep us going til the summer hols when we can visit a friend in west Wales with a forge and start on a knife from scratch.

I'll be working back through the thread following up links and books suggested and no doubt we'll be back with more questions before too long.

Again, thanks so much for your help.

C and 'the boy'!

 

[hawkeyefxr]

Like some other here i started out in the metalwork shop at school in the 60s then went into an indentured apprenticeship for 5 years. I went through many stages, sheet metal, tool room and drawing office. I did progress to thicker pieces of steel up to 4in thick, that took some welding.

On to present day, now retired. I bought myself a cheap Tig welder, this is good because it can weld quite a wide span of metal thicknesses. The thicker they are the longer it takes on small welder but it does teach you to be patient.

As to skip diving that is really a thing of the past as ANY scrap metal is money. However you could do what i did when i bought my TIG welded, i went to a sheet metal shop and asked if i could 'raid' their scrap bib for small metal section. I told them why i want ed it and also said i would bring back my welded pieces of scrap and put them in the bin for some more bits. That way they lose no money .

I do feel these days we are losing the ability to make anything, if you can make a place and make your own pieces like iron work you can make a living at what you enjoy doing.

 

[Chris152]

That's a great idea hawkeye - there's a metal shop a couple of miles from here, I can go and have a word with them about getting scraps from their bins to experiment with. If I do get a welder, I'm inclined to go with mig as people says it's easier, and one of the technicians at work gave me some coaching using mig last summer before I took early retirement so I feel a bit more confident with that (many years back I learned with oxy-acetylene, which I really liked but never got anything like competent at).

I do feel these days we are losing the ability to make anything, if you can make a place and make your own pieces like iron work you can make a living at what you enjoy doing.

Couldn't agree more. Computers are taking over, and doing a good job I guess. But there's a very different kind of satisfaction in making something for yourself. Whatever it is, I've told my kids to find something they love and get really good at it. That way they'll be able to pay the bills and hopefully be happy.

 

[--Tom--]

I’m working all hours at the moment so barely any workshop time, but could help out with heat treating and talking through the grinding / handling process for knives.

Can’t promise much at the moment but over the next couple of weeks will hopefully get a bit more time.

A kiridashi style marking knife is a quick enough project that’ll go through the basics, plus give a tool to use for woodwork.

O1 Ground flat stock is cheap enough that you can make a few for not much money

 

[--Tom--]

Meant to add I’m in Cardiff so not far away

 

[Chris152]

Thanks Tom. We've got a friend who's planning to help with blade making in the summer so we're sorted with that - but really appreciate your offer. His blade blank has arrived, now we've just got to figure out how to get a handle attached! Plenty of youtube vids on that, so hopefully all fine. Except that he's set his mind on tigerwood, not a lot of that about these parts... :?

 

[Rorschach]

Talking about this reminded me I had a blade to handle as well, got started today, only taken about 5 years lol.

 

[SteveW1000]

Could look for some old school project books on ebay or similar. In the 50s and 60s there were books with project ideas for teachers. Usually started out with ideas that didn't need much in the way of tools. These are from a time when the whole class did the same thing.

 

[Chris152]

Since I last posted here, he brought this home:

Hacksaw, rounded corners with file, circular bending jib to round bottom section, clamped and hammered top section to correct angle, cut and filed backplate, pillar drill for attaching, removed oxidation from areas to be welded, arc welded, cleaned welds with electric hand sander, removed oxidation all over, heated and then dipped in powder paint machine (he didn't remember the term) and hung to dry. He's pretty proud of it. And since then he's been using a metal lathe and loving it.

(And since we talked about what gets done in school, my daughter brought this home the same day!

It's got a pcb in it and led lamp that shifts colour (a bit like in the old oil lamps?), and she soldered the circuit herself - as well as the wood and art work. Happy day for me. It's just the local comp and I think they're getting at least some things right!)

Anyhoo, this is the blade we bought:

Can anyone point me to a video online that tells us how to set about making the handle? I've watched a few and there seem to be different methods (it's called part-tang, right?).

Thanks, Chris.

 

[Rorschach]

Nice work there!

That's a stick tang with a pin hole. You don't have to use the pin hole but it will improve the hold.

Very basically, you drill a hole in the piece of wood for the handle, ideally small holes you widen into a slot for the tang, then use a good epoxy to set the blade. File/sand shape to fit and you are done.

 

[AES]

Nice coat hook young Sir, and I like the lamp too. That seems a pretty good school they go to - I thought all that "dangerous, practical stuff" went out of the window in UK years ago!

Well done to them both! =D> =D> (one each)!

Knives? Absolutely NIL knowledge at all, sorry

 

[Sideways]

Use this as a guide and you won't go far wrong. Scandinavian knives are mostly stick tang like this and all just epoxied together. I'd ignore the hole in the tang for this one.

https://brisa.fi/tutorial_nordic_knife

Forged in fire episodes also show bladesmiths heating the tang red hot and burning the hole into the handle but i would skip that for a first knife

There are other ways but I'd say this was well proven.

 

[Chris152]

Thanks all - comments passed on and gratefully received!

That guide looks good Sideways - and I've seen a video of someone burning in the tang but reckon, as you say, we'll just stick to the epoxy (probably literally).

I'll post once we've made some progress.

Cheers

C
ps would this stuff from Halfords work ok? And if so, is it also good for filling cracks in wood/ bowls?
https://www.halfords.com/motoring/paint ... esin-250ml

edit - reading around, it seems it's epoxy resin I need for the woodwork, so will get some of that. Wests - not cheap tho, is it?!