Essential hand planes

[StraightOffTheArk]

So when people talk about 'scrubbing off' with, or using a widened-mouthed Stanley Bailey type plane of the usual variety as a Scrub plane, it's really just a Jack plane........??

I think 'scrubbing off' is less prone to misinterpretation than 'jacking off'

 

[D_W]

I should add - I only bought the ECE scrub because I wanted to know what the fuss was about.
Can't say I need it, nor would anyone else unless they are really into cleaning up manky old joists (as in photos above) or painted wood, for which they are excellent
They aren't much use for basic stock removal because of the roughness of the finish - rougher than hand rip-saw, axe, adze.
Not much use at all!
This is why there aren't many of them about.
The rear handle on the ECE is a bit small so I wear a rigger's glove. Could change the handle but it's not top o the list yet!

Lots of the old planes (like the one you showed second) are missing the web-of-the-hand fixture entirely, and can be quite uncomfortable to use for a period of time. My converted plane looks slightly newer than your second picture, but similar in proportion and no web of the hand fixture. If you use it for a while, it will beat you up.

 

[Oskar Sedell]

build a plane that can be used as a jack or as a utility plane between jack and smoother (something with a mouth around 3/32 inch or so. You'll never mind having a little bit of extra width over the scrub type of narrow-soled plane.

Sounds like a plan. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

[Tasky]

So when people talk about 'scrubbing off' with, or using a widened-mouthed Stanley Bailey type plane of the usual variety as a Scrub plane, it's really just a Jack plane........??

Yes.
They are very different.

Yes, their idea of a Scrub is really a Jack... or No, they're two very different planes and these people ought to know the difference?

 

[Jacob]

So when people talk about 'scrubbing off' with, or using a widened-mouthed Stanley Bailey type plane of the usual variety as a Scrub plane, it's really just a Jack plane........??

Yes.
They are very different.

Yes, their idea of a Scrub is really a Jack... or No, they're two very different planes and these people ought to know the difference?

Basically you can't sensibly convert a jack to cut like an ECE scrub, because of the narrow blade and the tight radius.
Nobody is saying these people "ought" to know the difference - there's a lot of opinion going around!

 

[D_W]

If you really want to throw a wrench into it, I've seen quite a few rabbet planes that have been set up to do scrub work (well, maybe a few, not quite a few).

I recall a video of a guy on youtube several years ago scrubbing a gigantic slab with a rabbet plane, all in one shot. I was impressed.

(the setup, of course, is key - the rabbet plane in question had significant camber).

 

[D_W]

Jacob is right about the narrowness, though (is that a word?) - if all desires for flatness go out the window and the only desire is to scuff a large cross grain shaving off of a piece of stock, the narrow scrub designs will follow the undulations on the wood a little bit better.

The era where the jack plane was the only plane for that type of work probably didn't include a lot of architectural restoration work.

 

[Tasky]

Basically you can't sensibly convert a jack to cut like an ECE scrub, because of the narrow blade and the tight radius.
Nobody is saying these people "ought" to know the difference - there's a lot of opinion going around!

Actually, just found a Paul Sellers video explaining basically what I'd understood the difference was...

"In times past, before Stanley Rule and Level cast their first all-metal scrub plane, the well used and worn-down wooden smoothing planes were kept as roughing planes for scrubbing off rough surfaces in preparation for more refined work. Longer planes such as jack planes and jointer planes followed to further level and straighten the work before the smoothing plane smoothed out the final surfaces. The roughing plane had many names including Hunter plane, Scud or Scudding plane; Scurf or Scurfing plane; Cow plane and I am sure others I haven’t heard of and was the forerunner to the original Stanley scrub plane we know today. The wooden roughing plane worked well for centuries but with Stanley’s new fangled all-metal planes came the necessity of metal scrub planes too. In this video I explain a little of the important history behind the development of the scrub plane and the transition from wooden planes to the all metal versions."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1r1LIk ... 8zn4pszI9A

So yeah, he suggests that for the 2-300 years before Stanley gave it an official name, it was an 'upcycled' smoothing plane.
Interesting to note that he goes from Scrub to Jack to Smoothing, without even mentioning a Fore plane...?

 

[Trafalgar]

In this case, the Scandinavian and Germanic branches of the western tradition have it right with a narrow plane, wide open mouth and curved cutter. All of this predates Stanley by quite a serious amount of time I'm fairly sure. That said, I'm sure this will raise the hair on the reinventers of the wheel's collective necks and send them scurrying to digitized versions of old Stanley catalogs while sputtering "but, but....."

 

[Jacob]

Stanley were just cashing in on a much older tradition, not very successfully considering how rare they are.
LN LV have reinvented it as a hybrid - not quite a scrub but definitely not a jack or smoother, and they are promoting it as necessary for "major stock removal, the first step when flattening rough stock by hand" which could help sales, but isn't what a scrub was originally for, in my opinion, based on my experience with the ECE.

 

[D_W]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1r1LIk ... 8zn4pszI9A

So yeah, he suggests that for the 2-300 years before Stanley gave it an official name, it was an 'upcycled' smoothing plane.
Interesting to note that he goes from Scrub to Jack to Smoothing, without even mentioning a Fore plane...?

Kind of curious that we don't see these planes sold used, because I've bought planes as old as about 1830 unused (as in, they should be out there in droves).

Wouldn't be surprised if there were users with more than one jack, though.

Just supposing what a very very coarse plane might have been used for before the era of architectural restoration, etc, I wouldn't be surprised to find that a shop kept a very rank set plane to rough green wood - but I'm no expert on any of that stuff.

I just have a fairly good idea about what a lazy man who hand dimensions would want at his bench using decent dried lumber. those planes *are* found in droves, and the fact that few hand dimension makes them really cheap on your island continent. I saw a good shape jack plane on ebay a couple of days ago BIN with a full iron and no breaks for 10 quid. I also bought an almost unused Mathieson jack (17 inch, 2 1/8th iron - my favorite design) for the equivalent of about $35. Saw several 22 inch try planes in decent shape for 20 pounds, too.

There's no great need to wonder which is better for what - trying them is a cheap proposition in most places. A lot cheaper than trying carving tools or shoulder planes. One can even try single iron planes if they like (if you can find them - that's not quite so easy), to see the difference between single and double and why the double eliminated quality single iron planes so fast.

I get about one request a month to build someone a plane. I have done it once so far (because the person buying agreed to contribute the difference between my ask and my costs to a charity - for a plane I'd already made for myself and used) - it's odd to me that I can tell someone to buy one of these $20 planes, and they won't do it. If I tell them I'll make them a ready-use plane for a couple of hundred, they're onto that. Perhaps I should offer a white collar service here in the states - U buy, I fettle - for old wooden planes. $100 for an hour or two's worth of work (perhaps making a wedge or something of the sort), it goes to charity, and I don't need to build myself planes.

And nobody pays $400 for a wooden plane that sits on a shelf until it shrinks tight to the iron.

 

[D_W]

The aforementioned rabbet scrub.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg0jUWJPweg

 

[Jacob]

That's a good idea! If you want to convert a plane into a scrub then a wide wooden rebate plane is the obvious choice. Lots of them about dead cheap in the UK at least, £5 or so. I see 1 1/4" and 1 7/8" on ebay at the mo.

 

[patrickjchase]

In this case, the Scandinavian and Germanic branches of the western tradition have it right with a narrow plane, wide open mouth and curved cutter. All of this predates Stanley by quite a serious amount of time I'm fairly sure. That said, I'm sure this will raise the hair on the reinventers of the wheel's collective necks and send them scurrying to digitized versions of old Stanley catalogs while sputtering "but, but....."

I said the same thing (about the scrub being a roughing plane from the German tradition, and Stanley's attempt at "retconning" its usage) many posts ago, so you'll get no argument here.

I'm not so sure about "right". The English Jack/Fore works perfectly well for the application as well, as do converted smoothers. As always there's more than one way to do it.

IIRC the Japanese tradition favored riving, which is arguably "best" of all when the wood is sufficiently straight grained. Does anybody know if they also evolved a roughing plane?

 

[Bodgers]

The aforementioned rabbet scrub.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg0jUWJPweg

An ECE rabbit, no less...

"The plane I'm using is a scrub plane"...I'm not sure it is, but he's using it like one

 

[Trafalgar]

I'm no tool historian but from what I've seen the scrub evolved as a separate and distinct plane from jack, jointer, and smoother in the Scandinavian tradition. Of course, there's no absolute bright line between any of these planes since work and circumstances vary so much. That said, we shouldn't minimise (love that "s"!) the scrub's history and certainly not its effectiveness in certain circumstances.

I THINK Stanley advertised their scrub as a good tool for 'backing out' mouldings since by the time they offered one very few shops were hand prepping lumber to any degree. People like Larry Williams in the U.S. have taken this as virtually the Gospel even when presented with evidence to the contrary.

Speaking of "s's" I'm cooking a little weeknight casserole for the family and it's starting to get a nice bit of caramelisation on the top.