Planning a workbench - Your thoughts on this design...

[Mr T]

If you are anywhere near Ilkley you are welcome to call in at my workshop to see the couple of bench designs I use. They are bigger than you want but they may give you some ideas.

Chris

 

[paulrockliffe]

The other thing to bear in mind is that you can easily get the strength of a traditional bench construction by welding some steel, putting a plywood back on, and or if it's going against a wall, or bolt it to the wall, and incorporate the strength of the wall.

 

[Andrewf]

I would also avoid the stretcher close to the floor. There is nothing worse than trying to work at a surface where you can't get your feet under it.

 

[Bodgers]

As an aside, I see no reason for aprons as they get in the way and serve no purpose other than to brace, which if the frame is strong enough is not necessary. (he ducks, covers his head and runs for the hills................................ ).

That is true - but making the frame strong enough takes more material than an apron.

My frame is diagonally braced, and has no apron. I like the way this allows me to clamp stuff DOWN onto the bench top. But there's no right or wrong - only priorities and choices.

BugBear

My motivation for adding the apron was mainly to make up for the euro style workbench limitation of not having the legs flush with worktop edge - as it is on the Roubo style. I thought the apron would add some vertical surface area. The strength aspect was also welcome.

Just yesterday I was planing the front surface of some solid wood edge banding I'd put on a long shelf, and to do this I had the shelf clamped into the workmate across its full length, which got me to wondering how that would work on a euro style workbench with a vise at one corner and just the top edge of the worktop for support. Almost makes me think the workmate would be better.

What I want is a really long vice I think, something like a twin screw setup.

 

[Bodgers]

If you are anywhere near Ilkley you are welcome to call in at my workshop to see the couple of bench designs I use. They are bigger than you want but they may give you some ideas.

Chris

Thanks Chris, Always worth seeing proper stuff in the 'wood'

 

[MarkDennehy]

As an aside, I see no reason for aprons as they get in the way and serve no purpose other than to brace, which if the frame is strong enough is not necessary. (he ducks, covers his head and runs for the hills................................ ).

...but if you had no aprons, what would you rub your fingers on the back of to get the glue off them?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

That's what trousers are for.

 

[MarkDennehy]

Just yesterday I was planing the front surface of some solid wood edge banding I'd put on a long shelf, and to do this I had the shelf clamped into the workmate across its full length, which got me to wondering how that would work on a euro style workbench with a vise at one corner and just the top edge of the worktop for support. Almost makes me think the workmate would be better.
What I want is a really long vice I think, something like a twin screw setup.

Front side of the shelf goes into the face vice, edge-to-be-planed upwards; stick a peg or a holdfast through a hole in the apron towards the back end to support it and/or clamp it to the apron:

In a french-style workbench, you do the same thing, only you have a moving piece that takes the peg called a sliding deadman (or you just put the pegs in the other leg):

But there are fifty other ways to do that, both on english style workbenches and french style (and roman style and scandanavian and morovian and .... basically if the form has been around for long enough to get a name before the internet showed up, then people have figured out how to do 99% of tasks on it already). Also, watch this, it may show you some ideas about workholding you've not seen before:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvhn-PAfEW4

 

[Bodgers]

Ok, I'm going to scratch this design completely. You've all convinced me it isn't great.

Who would have thought a thing that's basically just a table to hold stuff down has so many ideas and designs etc? Like you say Mark, pretty much every design from the dawn of time has been used to do all of the tasks they have needed...

My current thinking is to basically do this:

This a bench that appeared in the 'Woodworker' magazine by Charles Hayward a long, long time ago. Seems to be a tried and tested setup.

It satisfys my need for leg angles other than 90 degrees, has an apron and looks like it could be scaled sensibly. Only modification I think I will do, is a leg vice, which I'm thinking I'll do on the cheap using the Dema/Jay Bates scaffold screw idea. Not sure I'll do the tool tray either.

Which basically means, don't laugh, I'll be building a larger version of this kid's workbench:

http://benchcrafted.blogspot.co.uk/2017 ... -only.html

 

[dzj]

The hobelbank in the video is a good all purpose bench. Perhaps a bit top heavy
for serious hand planing. The legs are kinda skinny too.
On your design, I'd drop the floor level lengthwise stretchers and
double the width of the midway tray stretchers.
A short bench is always going to move slightly one way or another when planing,
so if you have limited space, anchoring it isn't the end of the world.

 

[Mr T]

IMO people tend too obsess too much about bench design. Whichever design you use there will be bits that work and bits that don't and you learn how best to use the bench and adapt you practices to it. I've used benches with and without aprons and not really felt I missed one when using the other, I am also not terribly concerned whether or not the workpiece sits against the bench edge when in the vice.

There is a time to plan and a time to make!

Chris

 

[MikeG.]

Well said Chris. I'm sure anything sturdy enough could be tweeked into a decent bench.....but sturdy is the key.

 

[Mr T]

Well said Chris. I'm sure anything sturdy enough could be tweeked into a decent bench.....but sturdy is the key.

Agreed, a bench needs plenty of mass.

Chris

 

[Bm101]

I'm hardly in the position to offer advice ( Worlds longest ever Bench Build still going on ) but in a limited space with a small bench against a robust back wall I'd be tempted to screw a couple of overhanging 4x2 against the back face of the bench so they brace against an end wall if you get my drift. That allows you free space at the front left end of the bench for cutting etc but any linear forces generated by planing are directed to the wall. Is that as clear as mud? :roll:
My top is fairly big 7x3 foot odd and heavy. All the components are mostly made up. Legs, stretchers, deadman. Two reasons its not completed: 1) I'm easily distracted and time short. 2) Even on the lidle sawhorses I have it's steady enough to plane on. I'd just pick a design and crack on.
Apologies if this sounds like it's advice. :wink:

 

[nabs]

perfectly reasonable solution BM - you can build a rock solid bench very simply like that (my first bench was plywood attached to the walls on two sides with more bits of ply to form legs and a shelf - immovable and perfectly useable) however, the limits on the amount of room you have caused by the walls and the fact the bench is fixed may eventually get on your nerves. Now I have a standalone bench I find that being able to shift a corner of the bench out a foot or so now and then is surprisingly useful (in my very small shed)...

 

[bugbear]

Well said Chris. I'm sure anything sturdy enough could be tweeked into a decent bench.....but sturdy is the key.

Agreed, a bench needs plenty of mass.
Chris

Although with rigidity and a firm fixing to the floor or wall, a bench can "steal" mass from the room.

Rigidity and mass can (to some extent) substitute for each other, although (obvs)
a bench with an excess of both is nice to use...

BugBear

 

[ED65]

Smaller benches do often end up being a bit too light or a little top-heavy, leading to them having a tendency to scoot along the floor or being a bit tippy, possibly both. There are a few simple solutions if you want to keep the bench small and remain free-standing, not attached to a wall or positioned in a corner.

The first comes straight from one of Robert Wearing's books. If you just need to prevent the bench inching along the floor when planing you make a pair of L-shapes from thick ply and screw these to the floor (only one screw is need per bracket according to the drawing). These are positioned to cup the inside corners of diametrically opposing legs. Much the same thing can be accomplished using right-angle mending plates but these would also solve any issues with tipping since the bench can't then lift.

When you can't or don't want to screw into the floor you can attach the legs, again using mending plates, to a piece of plywood large enough that you'd be standing on it during planing and sawing so your mass gets added to that of the bench. An additional 70-100kg should be enough to prevent all movement!

 

[paulrockliffe]

If you stand on the 'bench' it's as much about the balance of forces that that creates as the extra weight, when you force the plane forward you're pushing the bench backwards with an opposite and equal force.

 

[MarkDennehy]

If you stand on the 'bench' it's as much about the balance of forces that that creates as the extra weight, when you force the plane forward you're pushing the bench backwards with an opposite and equal force.

Most of that force though (the exact percentage being set by the coefficient of friction between the you+bench system and the ground) is transmitted directly to the ground, so the bench doesn't have to be built to withstand it.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Don't forget that the only one common thing to everyone's bench build is that they would do it slightly differently if they built another.