Farmer Giles
The biggest tool in the box
He's on the list now we have decent baby sitters 
Just bought a Viceroy TDS6 short bed
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Farmer Giles
The biggest tool in the box
it was a bit chilly for painting today but it warmed up a bit in the afternoon, so in between ripping the utility room ceiling down and putting some temporary windows in the first floor extension, I stuck a heater up the bases nether regions and gave it a spot of paint. Yes I did turn the heater off before I sprayed it! Before, filled and sanded.
After, I shall do the front and headstock later.
I then finished off the sanding and filling of the tailstock
And gave that a spray, turned out better than I thought it would, the paint is quite tenacious and doesn't run much.
I also did the actuator cover, you can just see a bit of it in the next pic, the rim had been bent, but being aluminium, it was easy to squeeze it out with a bit of round steel bar and a bit of a squeeze in the vice.
Next job is to finish sanding down the tool rests and outboard table edge. It doesn't take long with 120 grit abranet.
Cheers
Andy
After, I shall do the front and headstock later.
I then finished off the sanding and filling of the tailstock
And gave that a spray, turned out better than I thought it would, the paint is quite tenacious and doesn't run much.
I also did the actuator cover, you can just see a bit of it in the next pic, the rim had been bent, but being aluminium, it was easy to squeeze it out with a bit of round steel bar and a bit of a squeeze in the vice.
Next job is to finish sanding down the tool rests and outboard table edge. It doesn't take long with 120 grit abranet.
Cheers
Andy
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Farmer Giles
The biggest tool in the box
Too cold to paint and too cold to go into workshop at tea breaks to do a bit of tinkering, this is where I ended up yesterday. Mostly filled and sanded, just needs a final sand down and a wipe with degreaser and then it is ready for paint. I have a day off tomorrow and it is supposed to be a bit warmer so will get the fan heater on it in the morning and see if I can get the painting finished. I may mask it up this evening.
Cheers
Andy
Cheers
Andy
Attachments
Farmer Giles
The biggest tool in the box
The temp is up a couple of degrees today so finished masking it off, degreased it and gave it a spray. I'll take the masking off the various metal labels before the paint has set, that is always a scary moment.
All the ancillaries are sprayed too so I will leave it couple of days to harden then start reassembly.
Cheers
Andy
All the ancillaries are sprayed too so I will leave it couple of days to harden then start reassembly.
Cheers
Andy
Attachments
Farmer Giles
The biggest tool in the box
It hasn't turned out too bad, I took the masking off before the paint set so it doesn't drag the paint off the surface. Only issue was the masking tape took a bit of the black paint off the signs. Normally I would fully dismantle the lathe and push the rivets out from the back and take the signs off but this was supposed to be a quick makeover. If I did it it again I would use card and blu-tack or low tack masking tape. I have the masking tape on the bolts recessed into the headstock to remove but these are not near the painted surface so can be removed later.
With and without flash. When fully cured the film will be thinner and show off more imperfections but it will do for me.
Some more bits have arrived, I'm putting an extra on/switch on the lathe. The new switch will control the actuator, the old switch will control the VFD. I'm also putting a safety kick switch on it, it should be on the actuator to comply with safety regs as you get an air gap when the actuator turns off, however I may put it on the VFD. The rationale is that if it is on the VFD and I get used to using it to stop the lathe in normal use, then if there is an emergency it will be second nature to use. I'm still thinking about it.
Cheers
Andy
With and without flash. When fully cured the film will be thinner and show off more imperfections but it will do for me.
Some more bits have arrived, I'm putting an extra on/switch on the lathe. The new switch will control the actuator, the old switch will control the VFD. I'm also putting a safety kick switch on it, it should be on the actuator to comply with safety regs as you get an air gap when the actuator turns off, however I may put it on the VFD. The rationale is that if it is on the VFD and I get used to using it to stop the lathe in normal use, then if there is an emergency it will be second nature to use. I'm still thinking about it.
Cheers
Andy
Attachments
Farmer Giles
The biggest tool in the box
So while the paint dries I decided to move onto the motor. Firstly it is wired star or high voltage 415v, but luckily it is dual voltage, all that means is that the star point of the three windings are not soldered together internally but all 6 ends of the windings are available so it can be reconfigured as delta, sometimes called mesh, or low voltage 240v. Both modes are three phase.
Here's the set up as I got it, clearly wired for star with one motor wire on each of A, B and C, and 3 motor wires on the neutral. The neutral terminal effectively becomes the star point. There is also a power input on A B and C. The wiring diagram is conveniently placed behind the cover, sometimes these are illegible but this one is not too bad. Not all motors are like this, some have copper straps and by moving them you can change the mode. Some are hard wired in the windings and you have to dig around and find the star point, solder some wire on and extend the 3 missing ends into the wiring area, if your brave enough. If your not confident with any of this, get an electrician to do it for you.
The power lead makes it difficult to see so here it is without the power lead.
and now reconfigured for delta
and the power cable re-attached.
I was going to use the original power cable for bench testing of motor and VFD but the screened cable arrived just as I was writing this so I'll crimp some rings on it, solder a wire to the screen for the earth and cover the end in heat shrink first. I also received some 7 wire screened for the control cable.
Cheers
Andy
Here's the set up as I got it, clearly wired for star with one motor wire on each of A, B and C, and 3 motor wires on the neutral. The neutral terminal effectively becomes the star point. There is also a power input on A B and C. The wiring diagram is conveniently placed behind the cover, sometimes these are illegible but this one is not too bad. Not all motors are like this, some have copper straps and by moving them you can change the mode. Some are hard wired in the windings and you have to dig around and find the star point, solder some wire on and extend the 3 missing ends into the wiring area, if your brave enough. If your not confident with any of this, get an electrician to do it for you.
The power lead makes it difficult to see so here it is without the power lead.
and now reconfigured for delta
and the power cable re-attached.
I was going to use the original power cable for bench testing of motor and VFD but the screened cable arrived just as I was writing this so I'll crimp some rings on it, solder a wire to the screen for the earth and cover the end in heat shrink first. I also received some 7 wire screened for the control cable.
Cheers
Andy
Attachments
graduate_owner
Established Member
I have to say that looking at those photographs you have done a superb job of smartening up that lathe - quick makeover indeed. Makes mine look decidedly shabby.
K
K
Farmer Giles
The biggest tool in the box
Thanks G-O, I haven't done much today, final log/pellet boiler commissioning day so spent a lot of time going through endless menus on the management system as I was also being trained how to use it. Turn on date will be in two weeks as there's a bit of plumbing to do in the utility room that depends on me getting rid of old ceiling joists and a big beam so we can get rid of the pipes that went to the old boiler. Anyway I digress
I had a tiny bit of the paint in the aerosol so I used that up on the inside of the machine, easier to do before I put the motor back in, there was a bit of rust forming. I painted the undersides of the tables Alfa red and I got some edge trim delivered for the bottom of the lathe. Next step is to bench test the lathe and VFD but the potentiometer hasn't turned up yet, I hadn't realised I had ordered it from China.
Cheers
Andy
I had a tiny bit of the paint in the aerosol so I used that up on the inside of the machine, easier to do before I put the motor back in, there was a bit of rust forming. I painted the undersides of the tables Alfa red and I got some edge trim delivered for the bottom of the lathe. Next step is to bench test the lathe and VFD but the potentiometer hasn't turned up yet, I hadn't realised I had ordered it from China.
Cheers
Andy
Attachments
graduate_owner
Established Member
My daughter and son-in-law had a pellet boiler installed about 3 years ago to take advantage of the government payments. They had a bit of trouble at first, with sensors failing etc but seem quite happy with it now. It does take up some space though, what with the boiler itself, the pellet hopper and the cylinder. We looked into having one ourselves but we would have lost our utility room. Plus I didn't fancy manhandling about 4 tons of pellets per year -OK now but in about 5 years, when I'm over 70, it might be an issue. No space for the auger fed system so it was stick with oil.
K
K
Farmer Giles
The biggest tool in the box
graduate_owner":dt79cih7 said:
I'm a spritely 55 but I've factored old age into it. In the short term we have a bobcat and the logs and pellets are in IBC cages and stillages respectively, I can move these around the back of the house on the bobcat forks, it just gets around with inches to spare. I will then drop them onto some trolleys I'm welding up so they can be wheeled into the boiler room. I made a semi-underground bunker by excavating 200 tonnes of earth and rock from around the back of the house and building the boiler room with tanked block, lots of reinforcing and concrete, a concrete roof that is felted and sealed and now covered in sedum or similar. All faced with reclaimed stone, that was last year's project. Here's a few pics.
The chimney is 2 metres higher now and there is a path and green stuff growing.
Cheers
Andy
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Reckon that store could be handy if Messers Trump and Putin start gettig silly with the missiles!
To slightly(?) hijack the thread, if anyone wants a s/h pellet boiler, pm me.
To slightly(?) hijack the thread, if anyone wants a s/h pellet boiler, pm me.
Farmer Giles
The biggest tool in the box
I just tested the motor and VFD. Here's the bench set up, purely in local mode at the moment, i.e. no remote start/stop or speed control. It is always best to start simple and add things so if there is an issue you know what is the likely cause.
Once you turn it on, after its done its pre-check the VFD is ready to go as can be seen on the display.
After that it is simply a matter of pressing the on/off key then varying the speed. Out of the box this VFD is set to 3Hz, but remembers the last setting after power down. I took it up to 60Hz or about 1600rpm then back down to 50Hz. There is a very slight rattling noise from the motor, could be the rear shaft bearing, not sure, either way it is not difficult to change. I have no time to tinker tonight so will look closer in the morning.
Cheers
Andy
Once you turn it on, after its done its pre-check the VFD is ready to go as can be seen on the display.
After that it is simply a matter of pressing the on/off key then varying the speed. Out of the box this VFD is set to 3Hz, but remembers the last setting after power down. I took it up to 60Hz or about 1600rpm then back down to 50Hz. There is a very slight rattling noise from the motor, could be the rear shaft bearing, not sure, either way it is not difficult to change. I have no time to tinker tonight so will look closer in the morning.
Cheers
Andy
Attachments
Farmer Giles
The biggest tool in the box
dickm":3uf7xdw9 said:
I'm looking for a pellet stove for the workshop, but not a boiler. Which boiler do you have?
The bunker may come in handy the way it's going at the moment. Will stock up on essentials like malt whisky, pale ale and bog roll
Farmer Giles
The biggest tool in the box
Before I take the motor apart to change the bearings, I thought I would complete the controls side as the wire wound potentiometer arrived. Apart from wiring it up, it means selecting various parameters and making changes to their values. I only had an hour this evening but got the 7 core screened cable attached and the speed control working from the potentiometer. The start/stop via the old buttons isn't working yet but I suspect have the switch NO and NC the wrong way round. I'll check that in the morning.
Other stuff that arrived included the edge trim for the bottom of the lathe, I didn't like the sound of the edge of the metal bottom dragging on the ground, however I may now find it interferes with the cast base, we will find out soon. It's this stuff, in the flesh it is quite good quality, if it does foul the base I will think of an alternative trim for the bottom
I also had some 10mm and 25mm 303 stainless rod delivered for the T-Bars and making the missing T-Bar holder. 303 is easier to machine that 304/314 variants, slightly less corrosion resistance but will be fine in the workshop. I have been told it is easy to thread too. I also found some 50mm x 6mm washers in 303, they are meant to be part of a balustrade, at the moment the lathe uses various piles of rusty penny washers. These are used on the underside of the table to spread the load of the T-bars when moving the rests around. I did look at buying a short length of 50mm diameter 303 and make my own washers and nearly died at the price, these were much cheaper.
Other stuff that arrived included the edge trim for the bottom of the lathe, I didn't like the sound of the edge of the metal bottom dragging on the ground, however I may now find it interferes with the cast base, we will find out soon. It's this stuff, in the flesh it is quite good quality, if it does foul the base I will think of an alternative trim for the bottom
I also had some 10mm and 25mm 303 stainless rod delivered for the T-Bars and making the missing T-Bar holder. 303 is easier to machine that 304/314 variants, slightly less corrosion resistance but will be fine in the workshop. I have been told it is easy to thread too. I also found some 50mm x 6mm washers in 303, they are meant to be part of a balustrade, at the moment the lathe uses various piles of rusty penny washers. These are used on the underside of the table to spread the load of the T-bars when moving the rests around. I did look at buying a short length of 50mm diameter 303 and make my own washers and nearly died at the price, these were much cheaper.
Attachments
Farmer Giles
The biggest tool in the box
With instruction manuals, it is often what they don't tell you rather than what they do tell you that catches you out.
The VFD speed control worked immediately, the on/off switch wouldn't. It requires a NO contact for start on one digital input, and a NC contact on the stop and another digital input. All set but no go. The switch was a bit filthy so I took it apart and the contacts were soot and verdigris covered and when testing with the meter they were intermittent. Cleaned up, testing OK, put it back on the VFD, still nothing.
Scratches head, reads manual, looks at fault codes in the manual, then I had the eureka moment. There are four digital inputs, the factory defaults are that these inputs are not disabled, all do something so the VFD is looking for certain conditions on the other two inputs that I am not using. Set them to disabled and it works The manual tells you that these parameters do not rely on other parameter values, well it is plainly wrong if your not using forward/reverse etc. It should say set unused inputs to disabled.
So good to go now, just need to swap the bearings, so next job is to take the motor front and rear covers off and press the old bearings out.
Cheers
Andy
The VFD speed control worked immediately, the on/off switch wouldn't. It requires a NO contact for start on one digital input, and a NC contact on the stop and another digital input. All set but no go. The switch was a bit filthy so I took it apart and the contacts were soot and verdigris covered and when testing with the meter they were intermittent. Cleaned up, testing OK, put it back on the VFD, still nothing.
Scratches head, reads manual, looks at fault codes in the manual, then I had the eureka moment. There are four digital inputs, the factory defaults are that these inputs are not disabled, all do something so the VFD is looking for certain conditions on the other two inputs that I am not using. Set them to disabled and it works
The manual tells you that these parameters do not rely on other parameter values, well it is plainly wrong if your not using forward/reverse etc. It should say set unused inputs to disabled.So good to go now, just need to swap the bearings, so next job is to take the motor front and rear covers off and press the old bearings out.
Cheers
Andy
Farmer Giles
The biggest tool in the box
In between sorting out the guttering on the back of the house that needed shortening due to the extension, I got the motor dismantled and the bearings identified.
Undoing the four screws that go through the motor from front to back covers and tapping it with a rubber mallet loosened the front cover sufficiently to pries it off gently with a couple of screwdrivers complete with armature and both bearing.
I then used some hub pullers to remove the front cover from the armature. The covers are aluminium and quite delicate so I just put a small amount of pressure on it then heated the cover with a heat gun and the cover slid off nicely.
The bearings are both SKF 6203-2Z less than four quid each. I've ordered a couple, I shall remove the old ones from the armature tomorrow if I get time.
Cheers
Andy
Undoing the four screws that go through the motor from front to back covers and tapping it with a rubber mallet loosened the front cover sufficiently to pries it off gently with a couple of screwdrivers complete with armature and both bearing.
I then used some hub pullers to remove the front cover from the armature. The covers are aluminium and quite delicate so I just put a small amount of pressure on it then heated the cover with a heat gun and the cover slid off nicely.
The bearings are both SKF 6203-2Z less than four quid each. I've ordered a couple, I shall remove the old ones from the armature tomorrow if I get time.
Cheers
Andy
Attachments
Farmer Giles
The biggest tool in the box
Bearings changed in the motor and tested ready to receive the lathe body.
A reminder of how it looked when I bought it
how it looks now
Mainly looks standard except the speed control knob next to the on/off switches and the bristol levers instead of the simple levers it would have had if they weren't mainly missing/odd/rusted.
There is only one t-bar and thread clamp assembly, that is on the headstock, the others two for the rests are poor or missing, here's the poor one with nuts rather than knobs along with some stainless steel bar and new knobs, I may as well make all three the same.
So phase one more or less complete apart from the clamps. The next phase is to put the tacho and the actuator/thermal limiter back in. Here's he magnet for the tacho next to the drive belt to the headstock.
Next job is to affix the hall effect sensor that will pulse when the magnet passes the end of it. The sensor is not long enough to fix to the headstock cover plate directly so it will be via a bracket when I get around to it.
Cheers
Andy
A reminder of how it looked when I bought it
how it looks now
Mainly looks standard except the speed control knob next to the on/off switches and the bristol levers instead of the simple levers it would have had if they weren't mainly missing/odd/rusted.
There is only one t-bar and thread clamp assembly, that is on the headstock, the others two for the rests are poor or missing, here's the poor one with nuts rather than knobs along with some stainless steel bar and new knobs, I may as well make all three the same.
So phase one more or less complete apart from the clamps. The next phase is to put the tacho and the actuator/thermal limiter back in. Here's he magnet for the tacho next to the drive belt to the headstock.
Next job is to affix the hall effect sensor that will pulse when the magnet passes the end of it. The sensor is not long enough to fix to the headstock cover plate directly so it will be via a bracket when I get around to it.
Cheers
Andy
Attachments
Farmer Giles
The biggest tool in the box
It's been a while since I updated this thread as I jumped into the thread about changing Viceroy bearings for a while.
Now that has been done and I have been on a 2 day training course at Turners Retreat I can now finish this off.
I am putting adding the digital display and the installation of the contactor on hold for a while, so I can make a few shavings and see how it performs. Here's first results, just cleaning up a bowl blank, not sure what wood, the label dropped off
Things to do
Other than that all relatively good, I'm not that keen on the distance from the headstock to the work but due to the weird headstock thread then I had to have the external adaptor for the chuck which pushes it out a couple of inches. The machine doesn't bounce around or vibrate with the unbalanced blank which is good.
Cheers
Andy
Now that has been done and I have been on a 2 day training course at Turners Retreat I can now finish this off.
I am putting adding the digital display and the installation of the contactor on hold for a while, so I can make a few shavings and see how it performs. Here's first results, just cleaning up a bowl blank, not sure what wood, the label dropped off
Things to do
- The tool needed sharpening as it was straight out of the box, this means installing the sorby jig on my grinder.
I need to make 3 new adjusting screws for underneath the banjos and tailstock. I bought the bars and knobs ages ago, I just need to pull my finger out.
Raise the lathe a little. It's not stupidly low but not the ideal height for me to hold the tool correctly. I have some 50mm box section that I can weld a base out of at the same time as I am making a base for my fly press.
I've put up a couple of shelves, just need to sort out tool storage properly
Once they are done I will revisit the contactor and digital display.
Other than that all relatively good, I'm not that keen on the distance from the headstock to the work but due to the weird headstock thread then I had to have the external adaptor for the chuck which pushes it out a couple of inches. The machine doesn't bounce around or vibrate with the unbalanced blank which is good.
Cheers
Andy
Attachments
Farmer Giles
The biggest tool in the box
Today was bitter sweet. It started well, I cracked on and installed the Sorby grinding jig. The jig was to go on the movable bar that I already installed on my sharpening station a couple of years ago for just such and installation.
However it needed a plate fitting to allow all four fixing screws to be used and keep the jig stable. So I found a bit of 4mm plate in the scrap bin and tack welded it in position from underneath. Note the plastic 25mm plug that I forgot to remove before welding - doh! :lol: it survived just, but somewhat modified.
I then turned it over and fully seam welded the plate on the top, ground it flat, drilled it and painted it black. Then did the DIY that I should have been doing while it dried I also had to raise the grinder by about 10mm as the centre line of the wheel needs to be 135mm from the base of the jig, I used four M14 nuts as spacers, you can see them in the following pic.
Next I mounted the jig with four M5 bolts and decided to sharpen the existing profile rather than reshape to a finger nail profile.
The first attempt wasn't too bad, this was two light passes.
And it made a huge difference to the shavings coming off
So I cracked on and made more shavings until the RCD tripped on the consumer unit, after turning the VFD back on it came up with error E000 which has several possible causes including a short between phases, output overload etc. I reset it and it seemed fine, it is very compact in the motor, cupboard, not easy to troubleshoot so I thought I would crack on and see if it was a one off. I wasn't taking big cuts and the VFD was at just over 50hz when there was a bit of a bang :roll:
The barn MCB and RCD had tripped this time and there was a faint electrical burning smell in the cabinet. I suspect the motor needs as rewind, that is a danger of buying a second hand motor that you don't know the history of, and motors don't last forever.
I had to take the base off anyway to add the box section to raise the lathe, while I am in there I shall inspect the motor and see if the insulation has broken down between phases and if need be get a rewind, I just hope there is no lasting damage to the VFD.
Just as I was enjoying making a bowl for a neighbours birthday, she will have to have wine instead
Cheers
Andy
However it needed a plate fitting to allow all four fixing screws to be used and keep the jig stable. So I found a bit of 4mm plate in the scrap bin and tack welded it in position from underneath. Note the plastic 25mm plug that I forgot to remove before welding - doh!
:lol: it survived just, but somewhat modified.
I then turned it over and fully seam welded the plate on the top, ground it flat, drilled it and painted it black. Then did the DIY that I should have been doing while it dried
I also had to raise the grinder by about 10mm as the centre line of the wheel needs to be 135mm from the base of the jig, I used four M14 nuts as spacers, you can see them in the following pic.
Next I mounted the jig with four M5 bolts and decided to sharpen the existing profile rather than reshape to a finger nail profile.
The first attempt wasn't too bad, this was two light passes.
And it made a huge difference to the shavings coming off
So I cracked on and made more shavings until the RCD tripped on the consumer unit, after turning the VFD back on it came up with error E000 which has several possible causes including a short between phases, output overload etc. I reset it and it seemed fine, it is very compact in the motor, cupboard, not easy to troubleshoot so I thought I would crack on and see if it was a one off. I wasn't taking big cuts and the VFD was at just over 50hz when there was a bit of a bang :roll:
The barn MCB and RCD had tripped this time and there was a faint electrical burning smell in the cabinet. I suspect the motor needs as rewind, that is a danger of buying a second hand motor that you don't know the history of, and motors don't last forever.
I had to take the base off anyway to add the box section to raise the lathe, while I am in there I shall inspect the motor and see if the insulation has broken down between phases and if need be get a rewind, I just hope there is no lasting damage to the VFD.
Just as I was enjoying making a bowl for a neighbours birthday, she will have to have wine instead
Cheers
Andy
Attachments
minilathe22
Established Member
That is bad luck with the motor! I would not have thought that a rewind of the motor would be worth the cost compared to picking up a second hand or even a new motor.
Another thing to consider, older motors were never built to run on varying frequencies from a VFD, but more modern motors are designed with this usage in mind. At lower frequencies the current in the motor windings can be quite high, and the cooling fan is turning much slower, so the temperature can quickly rise. Did you set the maximum current rating of the motor in the VFD settings?
I used an old motor with a VFD and found that if you set the motor to stop very quickly, then the VFD threw an error every time you pressed the stop button. I then replaced it with a modern ABB motor and found that this did not happen, even with the same settings in the VFD. I am currently debating whether to add an always on fan above the motor to help prevent problems.
Hope you get it all sorted soon.
Another thing to consider, older motors were never built to run on varying frequencies from a VFD, but more modern motors are designed with this usage in mind. At lower frequencies the current in the motor windings can be quite high, and the cooling fan is turning much slower, so the temperature can quickly rise. Did you set the maximum current rating of the motor in the VFD settings?
I used an old motor with a VFD and found that if you set the motor to stop very quickly, then the VFD threw an error every time you pressed the stop button. I then replaced it with a modern ABB motor and found that this did not happen, even with the same settings in the VFD. I am currently debating whether to add an always on fan above the motor to help prevent problems.
Hope you get it all sorted soon.
