Moderators: Random Orbital Bob, nev, CHJ, Noel, Charley

 Reply
By DomD
#1268567
Planning on building a new workshop this summer. This will be heavily based on Mike's design but I have a few questions to ask before getting into building.

First off this is the site I want to build on (it is 'L' shaped but the pano stretches it out'):
PANO_20190216_132642.vr.jpg

The ground here was recently levelled so while it isn't completely flat not too much should need to be removed to get it flat. The trampoline and pile of branches will of course go.
As for size I have not fully decided but would be able to fit a 12' by 16' building on this site while remaining 2m from the borders.

I want to be able to do both woodworking and electronics shop and think because of the dust I will probably have to go for two rooms: that could potentially mean making the actual woodwork area only 12' by 10', thoughts on whether that is big enough (I know this is subjective)? The other option is having an 'L' shaped building to fit the space with the electronics area in the part coming out however I am concerned this is overcomplicating things for someone who has never done anything like this before.

For the base I plan to lay a concrete slab: I was wondering what the insulation options are for this as would ideally like the shop floor just to be concrete. The site is very inaccessible so I will definitely need to hire a pump if going this route; I may, in the end, pay for a builder to do this job as I am slightly worried about getting it level. Is this definitely the way to go or are concrete piers suited to this sort of job?

For the roof, I was initially going to do a cold mono-pitch roof with EPDM but have been considering a gable/hip for aesthetics. I am assuming this is going to be much harder work but am going to do the whole thing in CAD before to get all the angles etc. Are there load tables for these types of roofs and information on what type of joist brackets to use?

I also really like the look of clerestory windows and the light they provide but am worried that would complicate the roof framing loads especially as I haven't done roof framing before.

Just a couple of questions about Mike's design: firstly, I have seen others adding an extra layer of OSB/ply between the wall framing and breather membrane, is this not required? Secondly, how are the galvanised straps laid accurately and what sort of dimensions are required? A link to a product would be really useful.

I will pay an electrician to do the electrics but was wondering when these are installed (before insulation?) and what pipe size/diameter I should put in the slab for the cable.

Finally has anyone used 'Cedral Lap' style cladding and is there any low-cost cladding you recommend?

I appreciate this is a really long post and I have probably missed some details but thank you for any advice. Feel free to ask for any more info.

Many thanks, Dom
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by DomD on 30 Jul 2019, 19:43, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
By MikeG.
#1268579
Welcome Dom.

That looks like a great project you're planning, although with all that available space, and the need for two separate rooms, I think you might regret going to all that trouble and ending up with a space which is a bit constrained. My first suggestion is to do a proper scale drawing, including your bench, and machinery, tool storage, wood racks and so on, and see if you can make it work on paper for the sorts of projects you envisage doing. Remember, I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "I wish my workshop was a bit smaller".

Have a look at my workshop build,here. That might answer a few of your questions. Insulation under the floor is easy. I'll tell you your roof timber sizes when the time comes, and there is no need for any specialist brackets or anything like that for the roof. The strapping is just simple universal galv ms banding. Wall construction should follow the principles I set out in my two threads in my signature. Don't very from that, although obviously there are a multitude of external finishes one can use in place of the feather edge boards I suggest. The only correct position for the OSB is where I've shown it, and adding in more elsewhere could compromise the performance of the wall and the longevity of the building.

I'd steer clear of clerestorey lights. Your building is too small to justify them, and they cause a real structural complication , which will head towards structural engineer's territory if you do end up with an L shaped plan form. They are also a really attractive target for thieves, as they're difficult to protect. There is a standard plastic duct for electric cables, but you really only need it to bring the cable into the building. Two or three feet. The armoured cable to the building doesn't need to be in a duct. Maybe look out for an off cut on Ebay.

Anyway.........this all sounds fun. Time for you to get drawing........
By DomD
#1268616
Thanks for all that information Mike, reading through your build was especially helpful.
I think you may be right about the space: I may end up just going for one shop with an electronics bench in it that can be covered or if I can stretch the budget adding a couple extra square feet.

One way to save on cost would be doing the base myself though I am a little concerned about getting it flat; would you say this is something worth paying for?

Now I have seen your build the strapping makes much more sense; I also think I might copy your blocking so the cladding doesn't stick out too much.

I will stick to your wall construction.

I was actually thinking of clerestory lights back on my monopitch roof, though I have seen them on gable style roofs in buildings of similar size to mine such as "Sean's shed" which has plans online (I am unable to link at the moment):
eb04aea400f8623f95f06a240597fc47.jpg

I would definitely not be doing an L and clerestory lights and understand the additional complexity it would bring (and cost!).

For the cable I will check eBay: may also see what my electrician says.

Will get drawing now! Thanks for all the help. :)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
By DomD
#1268657
I have attached an image of an initial 1:24 floorplan which seems to look plausible but may seem much smaller in person (and will change depending on the size of machines I get). I will need to go and peg out the area to visualise the space.

After looking at having the two rooms I ended up just putting in a small separator wall: will need to see if this is adequate for dust control.

Just another question about your design: I realise you used OSB as the vapour barrier for the build - would plywood work too as it has layers of glue or would a separate vapour barrier need to go below the plywood?
Thanks for all the help so far,
DomImage
User avatar
By MikeG.
#1268668
I assume you're left handed?

Couldn't you have another stub partition opposite the one behind your bench? That way, you could have a plastic curtain or similar to draw across the opening when you need the other side to be dust-free?

Looks to me like you'll have about 3.8m x 3.0m for woodworking. Is that enough? Making the building a metre longer would make a substantial difference.
By DomD
#1268670
MikeG. wrote:I assume you're left handed?

No actually, is it my drawing style?

Couldn't you have another stub partition opposite the one behind your bench? That way, you could have a plastic curtain or similar to draw across the opening when you need the other side to be dust-free?

I could do, I'm just worried by partitioning the whole section off it will make the main area feel more enclosed and leave less space to assemble larger items.
I hope with most of the dust being made over on the left it should be ok, even so I doubt I will be making lots of dust at the same time as working on electronics.
Thanks
By sunnybob
#1268676
Its not just the machines, you have to have space to store your wood and offcuts. That alone can take a couple square metres.
I'm severely limited on what stock i can buy purely because i cant store it.
By AES
#1268677
FWIW, I agree with someone above who said "I've never heard of anyone complaining that their work shop is too big"! So if you can, add that metre (or even 500 if you can only get away with that much).

Re the dust, I'd strongly recommend an air filter as well as the extractor shown. If you can hang it from the ceiling, machine inlet facing the dusty side of the shop, outlet facing a window, or if not possible as in your drawing, at least facing the door. There are several on the market, I bought the Record Power 400, and it works very well in my cellar, hung up almost flush to the ceiling (similar to your drawing, not many openings to the outside in my cellar). The machine is quiet, has 3 speeds, and best of all, has a 1, 2, and 4 hour timer - but as said, there are other makes.

And as said, don't neglect the good effect some sort of floor to ceiling curtain can have - my wife suffers from COPD and stuff like the washing machine etc, is in the cellar too. So she's in and out of there too. I find a couple of cheapo shower curtains sewn together and hung from the ceiling separating "my side" from her side", coupled with running the Record on auto timer does a lot (but NOT all please note) to reduce airborne dust. I don't have a chip extractor but only run each hand tool connected to a shop vac.

HTH, good luck with the shop build, there's plenty of people on here who have MUCH more knowledge than me.
By DomD
#1268696
sunnybob wrote:Its not just the machines, you have to have space to store your wood and offcuts. That alone can take a couple square metres.
I'm severely limited on what stock i can buy purely because i cant store it.

Yeah, I have factored some space for that into my initial drawing but can imagine running out quickly

AES wrote:Re the dust, I'd strongly recommend an air filter as well as the extractor shown. If you can hang it from the ceiling, machine inlet facing the dusty side of the shop, outlet facing a window, or if not possible as in your drawing, at least facing the door.
And as said, don't neglect the good effect some sort of floor to ceiling curtain can have - my wife suffers from COPD and stuff like the washing machine etc, is in the cellar too. So she's in and out of there too. I find a couple of cheapo shower curtains sewn together and hung from the ceiling separating "my side" from her side", coupled with running the Record on auto timer does a lot

That sounds like a good idea regardless of whether I go for one room or too seperate rooms.

I do have space for probably up to 12x20 (with the 2m boundary on each side) so maybe I should invest in the larger room initially even if that means getting set up with fewer tools after? I am drawing a floorplan for this now.

Thanks for all the feedback and help.
User avatar
By MikeG.
#1268697
DomD wrote:
MikeG. wrote:I assume you're left handed?

No actually, is it my drawing style?


No, you've shown the vice at the "wrong" end of the bench. And if you show it at the normal location, your bench is pushed into a corner where you don't want it to be for right handed work.
By screwpainting
#1268702
Its a nice place to be Dom,new shop, stuff to plan, stuff to buy, its what men need and deserve to be doing. If it were me, I would hold fire on planning each work area too hard and fast and make as much of the shop as possible moveable on wheels so as to be able to adjust the geography of things as you go along. I don't think I would ever have fixed areas again, too inflexible. Some of these new cabinet designs that have a table saw, thicknesser, router etc that all flip over when not in use make so much sense when you think about it. As for dust, its all been said before but in addition to all the other things you can do to have a dust free shop. A simple but very powerful wall vent fan is an amazingly quick way to completely remove the fine stuff. I did a smoke test in my little shop and with a door held ajar at the opposite end of the room to the fan, I saw a corridor of fresh air in which you can work and the smoke cleared completely in about a minute. No guessing, you can actually see the clean air area. I would not be without that fan, I put it in initially to remove kiln fumes as I also make/made tiles and you most definitely don't want to breathe in the crud from that process. Another thing I would consider is additional floor area outside with a pull out canopy of some sort, I stuck an awning from one of my old motorhomes on the front of my shop over the door, three and a half meters wide I think, I cant tell you how handy that has been, I wouldn't want to be without that either, beer in the rain or out of harsh sun, sussing stuff out, it just works, trust me :).
Good luck with it all, looks a lovely site for it.
By DomD
#1268708
MikeG. wrote:
DomD wrote:
MikeG. wrote:I assume you're left handed?

No actually, is it my drawing style?


No, you've shown the vice at the "wrong" end of the bench. And if you show it at the normal location, your bench is pushed into a corner where you don't want it to be for right handed work.
Ah, I was sort of unaware of that as a standard but now I have looked it up it makes sense. Thanks for the heads up - I will change it when redesigning.
By DomD
#1268716
screwpainting wrote:I don't think I would ever have fixed areas again, too inflexible. Some of these new cabinet designs that have a table saw, thicknesser, router etc that all flip over when not in use make so much sense when you think about it. As for dust, its all been said before but in addition to all the other things you can do to have a dust free shop. A simple but very powerful wall vent fan is an amazingly quick way to completely remove the fine stuff.

Good point about the movable tools: the reason I included the long chop saw station is that I can store movable tools underneath it (shown in plans); the chop saw will also be useful for making quick crosscuts as I won't have to wheel out the table saw. I will look into getting a fan.

screwpainting wrote:Another thing I would consider is additional floor area outside with a pull out canopy of some sort, I stuck an awning from one of my old motorhomes on the front of my shop over the door, three and a half meters wide I think, I cant tell you how handy that has been, I wouldn't want to be without that either, beer in the rain or out of harsh sun, sussing stuff out, it just works, trust me :).
Good luck with it all, looks a lovely site for it.

Would need to look into planning permission, but sounds like it might be an idea. Do you extend the concrete out to the awning?

Speaking of the site the trampoline is down today, now just to burn the garden waste:
IMG_20190217_165646.jpg


Thanks for all the advice so far.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by DomD on 20 Feb 2019, 12:28, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By MikeG.
#1268744
If you're away from your boundary, and if you aren't in a National Park, AOB, World Heritage Site etc, then you don't need planning permission for what you've drawn so far, so long as the roof doesn't get too tall.

I hate movable machinery, and built a big enough workshop such that I din't need to have them movable. A small workshop with lots of machinery forces you into having it mobile. When you've a blank sheet of paper, you've got the choice, but you should be making those fundamental sorts of decisions on paper, and not when you are standing in your new workshop.