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By Paul Chapman
#941532
bugbear wrote:
AndyT wrote:IIRC Veritas had a go at something like this but gave up on it.


http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.a ... 10&p=32635



I bought one of those scraper plane inserts many years ago. It was awful and I could never get it to work. I gave it away in the end.

Cheers :wink:

Paul
By Vann
#941650
Paul Chapman wrote:
bugbear wrote:
AndyT wrote:IIRC Veritas had a go at something like this but gave up on it.


http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.a ... 10&p=32635



I bought one of those scraper plane inserts many years ago. It was awful and I could never get it to work.
This does look like a better engineered solution than the LV idea.

And there's no shortage of incomplete No.4 planes for sale in my neck of the woods (I always thought Finland would be an interesting place to live - but if there is a shortage of No.4s there... no way :mrgreen: )

Cheers, Vann.
By rxh
#942063
Thanks to all for your further comments. New scraper planes are extremely expensive and I saw this as a way of producing one very cheaply (with a bit of effort). I think that any Bailey type plane could be adapted in this way but I certainly don't recommend sacrificing a good one. However I wouldn't object to making use of one that is incomplete, damaged or an inferior specimen.

Bigdanny wrote:Hats off to you. Thats a cracking job. I always thought there must be a way to do this simply and elegantly I just never applied my mind to it.
What thickness steel/ brass did you use for the main holder. I'm guessing 8 or possibly 10 mm or equivalent.

Yours is soo much more than others that are floating around in the ether.

Thanks Bigdanny. The steel and brass plates are 1/4" thick and are connected using "mortice and tenon" joints using solder as the "glue".
By rafezetter
#942156
Hmmm - I smell a something fishy.... you bought that didn't you; go on admit it... it's Lie Nielson's stab at making a conversion kit prototype, it's ok you can tell me I won't tell a soul.

Seriously though, your small router plane (had the pleasure of handling it at Richard A's do) was excellent, and now this is also... excellent. Just as a f'instance how much would it cost to have those parts made as a conversion kit? I think you'd definitely have some takers on here.

The only thing I'd mention though is you say you'd not use this on a good #4 - is there something about this kit that means it can't be set back up as a smoother? I'm keeping in mind that Condeesto mentioned it might require a perfectly lapped sole to give perfect results (Although I agree old pre '70's #4's seem to be everywhere, I've got 4 here and 2 of them are just sat here as I can't seem to sell them - £50 each delivered to you Heimlaga :) )
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By condeesteso
#942158
Richard will be back on this point, but I know he had to open the mouth a bit. It might be that the common No4 'tune-up' to a thick iron and cap (QS for example) would convert back, as you generally need to open the mouth for those iron set-ups anyway. I suspect the idea is a cheap donor No4 and keep it as a scraper.
By rxh
#942336
rafezetter wrote:Hmmm - I smell a something fishy.... you bought that didn't you; go on admit it... it's Lie Nielson's stab at making a conversion kit prototype, it's ok you can tell me I won't tell a soul.

Seriously though, your small router plane (had the pleasure of handling it at Richard A's do) was excellent, and now this is also... excellent. Just as a f'instance how much would it cost to have those parts made as a conversion kit? I think you'd definitely have some takers on here.

The only thing I'd mention though is you say you'd not use this on a good #4 - is there something about this kit that means it can't be set back up as a smoother? I'm keeping in mind that Condeesto mentioned it might require a perfectly lapped sole to give perfect results (Although I agree old pre '70's #4's seem to be everywhere, I've got 4 here and 2 of them are just sat here as I can't seem to sell them - £50 each delivered to you Heimlaga :) )

Thanks for the kind comments. At the moment I don't make things for sale but I have been known to do swaps occasionally :) . Maybe after I have retired, which may not be all that far away .....
The main part was made a little oversized then filed down to a good fit. I fitted it nicely to my No. 4 but found it needed further filing for a good fit to the plane body I bought - so because of these manufacturing tolerances either the customer would need to do the fitting or else send me the plane for me to do it. It is not all that difficult but needs a bit of patience: first the relevant parts of the plane are brushed with engineers' blue and then the part is offered up. Where there blue is transferred shows where to file the part. Then these operations are repeated until a good fit is obtained.

condeesteso wrote:Richard will be back on this point, but I know he had to open the mouth a bit. It might be that the common No4 'tune-up' to a thick iron and cap (QS for example) would convert back, as you generally need to open the mouth for those iron set-ups anyway. I suspect the idea is a cheap donor No4 and keep it as a scraper.

Yes Douglas, I think it could be converted back using a thick blade as you say. When I tried it first I found the mouth gap rather tight but I didn't want to take a file to my No. 4 so I bought a spare body to modify (for the princely sum of 99p + P&P). Any cheap Bailey style plane could be used provided its sole is flat, or can be made flat - so I agree that would be the best way to go in order to have a scraper ready when needed.
By rxh
#1172033
Yes, I can give you a scale drawing with list of materials, notes and options for British or Metric threads. If you PM me your address I’ll put a copy in the post, or I can e-mail you a PDF if you are able to make A3 size prints.

The only difficulty in making it was the connection between the front plate and top plate of the main assembly, which required careful filing.

Because of the manufacturing tolerances in plane castings it is necessary to make the main assembly slightly oversize and file it down to fit. I made mine fit a No.4 body nicely then tried it on another No.4 body and it required more filing for a good fit on that one. It is not all that difficult but needs a bit of patience: first the relevant parts of the plane are brushed with engineers' blue and then the part is offered up. Where there blue is transferred shows where to file the part. Then these operations are repeated until a good fit is obtained.

Another thing that should be mentioned is that I found it necessary to open up the plane mouth a little in order to avoid clogging with the shavings.
By jim1950
#1172053
very nice looking job, wish I had one when I was scarping large hardwood worktops in the joiners shop would have saved all them blistered thumbs and finger go black working on oak tops.

Great job
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By Derek Cohen (Perth, Oz)
#1172090
That's a nice job. Can you show some of the shavings it makes?

Another thing for anyone here to try is to reverse the blade in a Stanley and use it bevel up. With a 35 degree bevel, this will create a cutting/scraping angle of 80 degrees. It will work like a scraper plane.

Image

Regards from Perth

Derek
By 3dwilliams
#1172367
"Yes, I can give you a scale drawing with list of materials, notes and options for British or Metric threads. If you PM me your address I’ll put a copy in the post, or I can e-mail you a PDF if you are able to make A3 size prints."

It says I have not posted enough not the forum to us the PM function! How frustrating. Does anyone know how many posts I have to make to be allowed this use this function?
By Jeff57
#1207949
rxh wrote:This is an experiment to make a scraper plane using a Stanley No. 4 as the basis. The blade is held against a metal support which is bolted to the frog mounting holes in the casting. I made the parts and temporarily fitted them to my No. 4 to satisfy myself that the idea would work. Then I bought a No. 4 body from a well known auction site, transferred the parts to it together with new handles that I had made. The blade is made of 1/8" thick O1 steel, bevelled at 45 degrees and inclined forward at 20 degrees from vertical. The usual style of front knob would be no good because the forward leaning blade would get in the way of a proper grip. I had to open up the mouth a little to allow good clearance for shavings. The central screw is first tightened to hold the blade and then the two small screws are tightened to provide additional security against the blade rotating in use. The completed plane works well.