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User avatar
By Rhyolith
#1156891
A while back I got hold of a Kismet Trolly, which is the largest manual pneumatic pump in the Kismet (William Turner & Co of Eyre Works Sheffield) range; you can see the thread about that here: help-with-giant-kismet-pump-restoration-t100327.html. Unfortunately I was unable to complete that restoration due to the extent of the damage to the inside mechanisms of the cylinder and by lack of ability to repair broken metal parts; all the screws and threads were busted too.

I have been on the lookout for another one since as I really want to see one working (they are beastly pumps!) and last week, the car boot finally yielded one!

ImageKismet Trolly (as found) by Rhyolith, on Flickr

ImageKismet Trolly (as found) by Rhyolith, on Flickr

Its in the typical horrible condition that seems standard for this things and so far none of the major screws (mainly the ones that hold the cylinder in) have moved for me yet. I am going to try 650 degree C heat gun next to on the areas with the stubborn screws to hopefully brake the bonds... but this made no difference last time so not hold my breath! Any thoughts on how to get them out before I think about drilling them would be appreciated.
Last edited by Rhyolith on 28 Jun 2017, 21:30, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
By nev
#1156906
I read this last night on another forum, don't know if it works but may be worth a try?

Try a 50/50 mix of ATF (Automatic transmission fluid) & Acetone. Spray it on from a garden plant sprayer & allow to soak in. It always works for me when WD40 fails.

The theory/principle is this.....

The acetone creeps into gaps that WD40 can't. As it creeps in it takes some of the ATF with it. Then the acetone evaporates leaving the ATF on the threads of the offending nut/bolt.Try a 50/50 mix of ATF (Automatic transmission fluid) & Acetone.

Just remember - ATF and acetone are not good on painted surfaces so wipe off any excess etc.
User avatar
By Rhyolith
#1157119
Well I have had not luck with the big screw yet, may have to invest in some acetone. I have never been able to get that hammer powered impact driver to work... maybe an electric one? Trouble would be getting a bit big enough.

I have tried heating it to 650 both ends, with not effect other than a funny smell from the muck in there! I have a joist brace bit that fits it well, but even with considerable force its showing not signs of moving :evil:

Image2nd Kismet Trolly Restoration by Rhyolith, on Flickr

Image2nd Kismet Trolly Restoration by Rhyolith, on Flickr

Some progress has been made though, the pin at the top of the cylinder has come out relatively easily. :shock:

Image2nd Kismet Trolly Restoration by Rhyolith, on Flickr

This means I can start taking the cylinder apart and don't strictly have to remove the pipper at the other end (though that would still be good!).

Image2nd Kismet Trolly Restoration by Rhyolith, on Flickr

Image2nd Kismet Trolly Restoration by Rhyolith, on Flickr

Image2nd Kismet Trolly Restoration by Rhyolith, on Flickr

Everything is filthy, even more so than usual! Don't know where this poor thing has been... maybe in a compost heap!

See the state of the inside here... and thats after some cleaning.

Image2nd Kismet Trolly Restoration by Rhyolith, on Flickr
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By Rhyolith
#1157274
Success! Overwhelming force did it in the end, applied but two mole grips set as tight as I could get them!

Image2nd Kismet Trolly Restoration by Rhyolith, on Flickr

Still took an incredible amount of effort, the strength of rust is quite surprising.

Anyway with both ends now out the cylinder and the base can be cleaned up with relative ease, thank god.... safe to say the elation was quite considerable when that pain of a bolt first moved! :mrgreen:

Image2nd Kismet Trolly Restoration by Rhyolith, on Flickr

Unsurprisingly all the washers need replacing, luckily I have discovered tank washer cutters and shaping the thicker leather (3mm, suited to the big washers in this) is fairly easy with those. Will get onto that in due course.

I have since dislodged another jammed part, the locking mechanism (this just holds the handle down so it can be used to wheel the thing around) I am not sure how much the heating helped... anyway a 18" spanner was what move it in the end.

Image2nd Kismet Trolly Restoration by Rhyolith, on Flickr

After that I cleaned the base with white spirt and water which took a while, it was filthy!

Last thing today was starting the buff up the main cylinder, which thanks to a layer of grease was in good nick! This is the first fairly pleasant job of the restoration... I am so glad those screws are out!

Image2nd Kismet Trolly Restoration by Rhyolith, on Flickr

Image2nd Kismet Trolly Restoration by Rhyolith, on Flickr
User avatar
By Rhyolith
#1158386
Finished Polishing up the Cylinder, it got 3 coats of lacquer and I am very pleased with the result... easily the best of these I have done so far! Preparation is seems the key to a very good finish oppose to an "ok" one.

The dings and other imperfections are still there under the lacquer, nothing but a buffer & white spirt rag was used on it. I like leaving evidence of its history, though this one actually had remarkably little to show relative to other brass pump cylinders I have done... maybe due to the several mms of grime that was over it!

ImagePolished and Lacquered Cylinder KTC by Rhyolith, on Flickr

The next challenge was yet another jammed part.. and the reason I have been silent of several days :evil:

ImageJammed Wheel KTS by Rhyolith, on Flickr

It took 3 days to get it off.... 3 days! Of heating, cooling and lubricating.

The problem was I could not apply enough force, as with the other parts I guess A LOT force was needed so needed a way to get some leverage. The most effective solution ended up being a record No.0 (Or No.1... not sure now!) engineering vice and an 18" spanner: arranged like this (really felt wrong using that nice little vice like that... but had run out of options!):

ImageWheel Gripping Method KTC by Rhyolith, on Flickr

That moved it, but it still took a days work to get it free after the first movement!

Anyway once that ***** was off, I cleaned up the base. To start with I gave it a once over with the powered wire brush (one of my favourite tools), defiantly goggles and a dust mask for this! Clouds of crude came off accompanied by a shower of little bits of rust.

ImageKTC Base Cleaning (power brush) by Rhyolith, on Flickr

That took a good hour to do...

Next cleaned the remaining dust (left by the wire brushing) off with a white spirt soaked rag.

ImageKTC Base (Turps Rag) by Rhyolith, on Flickr

Then a nice job, polishing the pretty little brass information plate, which was actually in quite good condition.

ImageKTC Information Plate (not cleaned) by Rhyolith, on Flickr

Forgot to take picture of it cleaned, will add in here tomorrow. its kinda visible in the next picture.

The whole base then got 3 in 1 rubbed on it.

ImageKTC Base Oil Ragged by Rhyolith, on Flickr

With the base done, I polished up the inner cylinder. I have not lacquered it for 2 reason (do you agree?): it tends to get covered in oil anyway and I assumed the abrasion as it goes in and out of the main cylinder would rub it off. So its just been cleaned with white spirit and buffed.

ImageKTC Inner Cylinder (Polished) by Rhyolith, on Flickr

I proceded to clean up all the other metal parts: screws, nuts, etc... with the power brush and a rub of 3 in 1.

The main handle also got this treatment:

ImageKTC Lever by Rhyolith, on Flickr

I have just finished going trough all the leather washers that need replacing. This is a tedious job due to my poor selection of leather working tools... I only 3 punches (none of which are ever the right size of course) and have to relay on a tank washer cutter... which works well on the thick leather (3mm) but is useless on the thin stuff (1mm).

Anyway, just waiting for the biggest washer to soak so it will bend into shape, then the the whole thing can be put together!

ImageKTC all parts cleaned by Rhyolith, on Flickr
User avatar
By ED65
#1158405
Stonking job polishing up the outer cylinder =D> If you're aiming for polished that's what you want it to look like when you're done!

You mention the tank cutter not being any use for 1mm leather, how are you currently cutting to size, just using scissors? Probably the best option at the end of the day.
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By Rhyolith
#1158513
ED65 wrote:.... You mention the tank cutter not being any use for 1mm leather, how are you currently cutting to size, just using scissors? Probably the best option at the end of the day.

Depends on the size. But the best method so far seems to be to mark the required cycle with the tank cutter lightly, then use scissors to cut it. If its smaller I use the nearest punch size I have and trim it down.

Out of interest... every tank cutter I have found has the cutter mounted backwards. So the flat side is cutting. Why is this, seems like it would be a lot more effective mounted the other way (no way to do this).
User avatar
By ED65
#1158518
Just to go back briefly to acetone, it's well worth picking up a small bottle to have on hand. Other than its use to make a DIY penetrating fluid it is a useful solvent to have around the workshop anyway, as a first-stop paint remover for one and it can be used as a final rinse for varnish brushes if needs be.

At some point you're going to need a proper penetrating fluid, i.e. something better at this than WD-40, and acetone makes a much better one (at least twice as good) cheaply. You don't need ATF, just mix the acetone with some oil. Apparently any oil will do. Where this is used in Africa they use whatever vegetable oil is on hand that costs least. I use liquid paraffin myself so that I don't need to worry about any residue I've missed going gummy in time.

It's probably counterintuitive but you weight the mixture towards the oil, so only about 10 or 20% acetone.

Poundland do a pure acetone in small bottles for removing false nails and that's probably the cheapest way of getting a small amount (150ml).
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By Rhyolith
#1158691
I am not a fan of acetone... it smell horrid and is a pain to get rid of (to my knowledge) in an environmentally friendly way. So I am hesitant to get it unless I really need it (was close with this one!). Are there any less toxic options for penetrating fluid?

On that note I have got rid of my last bottle of white spirt with this project to switch to clean spirit substitute, which I find much more plesant to work with. It also easier to get rid of.
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By ED65
#1158836
If you can't stand the smell of acetone then you can't stand the smell, I have a few friends in the same boat when it comes to turps which they'd like to use in oil painting but can't because they find the smell nauseating.

Rhyolith wrote:...and is a pain to get rid of (to my knowledge) in an environmentally friendly way.
I can't think of a reason you'd need to dispose of any. I don't think I've ever had to get rid of acetone (or meths) in nearly 40 years of using them.

But if you had to you could just leave the container open and let it evaporate. That may sound very not-green but it's perfectly fine, in use that's what happens to it anyway.

Rhyolith wrote:Are there any less toxic options for penetrating fluid?
Don't know. It's possible meths or 99% isopropyl alcohol would work similarly, those are the only solvents I could guess at that you'd easily get and might be comfortable using. The other solvents that are likely stand-ins for acetone we can't get easily over here and anyway you'd probably find the smell of those even worse!

Rhyolith wrote:On that note I have got rid of my last bottle of white spirt with this project to switch to clean spirit substitute, which I find much more plesant to work with. It also easier to get rid of.
I haven't thrown white spirit away in over 20 years since I found out you can reuse it indefinitely :)

If it's contaminated with grease you keep it for cleaning jobs. If it's contaminated with paints or varnish you can leave it to settle, pour off the liquid to a new container, top it up and keep on using it.
User avatar
By Rhyolith
#1159905
Finished!

ImageKismet Trolly Compressor by Rhyolith, on Flickr

ImageKismet Trolly Compressor by Rhyolith, on Flickr

ImageKismet Trolly Compressor by Rhyolith, on Flickr

ImageKismet Trolly Compressor by Rhyolith, on Flickr

ImageKismet Trolly Compressor by Rhyolith, on Flickr

ImageKismet Trolly Compressor by Rhyolith, on Flickr

ImageKismet Trolly Compressor by Rhyolith, on Flickr

The reason its taken so long is lots of faffing about getting the washers right... they still not perfect, but it does work! Will probably improve them at some point if I get better leather working kit & skills.