Moderators: Random Orbital Bob, nev, CHJ, Noel, Charley

 Reply
By bob531
#1340798
Hi,
Ive just bought replacement blades from Tyzack for my old Z saws. When looking around for best prices i came across this guy on ebay who claims most Z saws sold in the UK are fakes made in China, blah ,blah.....
Any truth in this or seller bull.....it!!
Bob
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-Genuine-Japanese-Z-pull-saws-and-3-blades/124101450286?hash=item1ce505da2e%3Ag%3AjNAAAOSwSw5eCIDj&LH_ItemCondition=10
User avatar
By ED65
#1340818
Can't speak to the accuracy of this one claim, but I can tell you that there are [insert a very large amount] of knockoffs made in China, you see this browsing AliExpress a lot. A lot. Some are just similar, lookalike products, but others are the very definition of counterfeits or fakes.

So I'd say it's certainly possible.
By bob531
#1340825
Thanks i guess we just have to trust that the tool/dealer/supplier we buy them off are buying from the respective Japanese factory . I know ive used the saws which i purchased i think from Axminster about 20 years ago so have last edwell, just too many broken teeth now,hence the replacements. I suppose i will just compare them and other than if they cut well ,theres not much i`d notice as mine have back spines on them .(wouldnt really notice the wobbling that seller is talking about.
By D_W
#1340830
I doubt it. These replacement blades in japan cost almost nothing comparatively.

Note that this is a japanese site, seller in japan, $12.30 from what I can tell for a "buyout price" (fixed price listing) and the well-appreciated Z kataba.

https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/o377204954

Some of the replacement blades by themselves are about $25 for a pack of 5 (smaller ones less).

My advice is to stick with a seller with a japanese origin (where it's shipped from) if you'd like japanese product for certain, but I'm guessing what he's saying is that the cheaper (different brand) of "japanese saws" sold at retail home centers are sometimes chinese made. Not "Z saws" sold in the UK by retailers are fakes - I haven't seen it.

We get shelled on stuff like this that goes through distribution and retail markup to be sold in the western world, though. Buying from japan can be cumbersome, too, as while this saw is $12.30, you can expect a service like buyee to charge about $5 shipping for each item and then a $15 consolidation fee plus shipping. If you wish to make a large order and surface ship it, you could get a lifetime supply of pull saws and spare blades for about half or so of what they cost here in the states.

Sellers on japan using ebay are either doing the manual work themselves to sell you a $30 saw and hopefully make about $10 on the transaction, or they're using something like amazon japan to drop ship them. Relisting of stuff in japan is common - it's legit goods. when you see it, you know the goods in country are much less expensive than we think they are.

When you see Z saws or Gibson USA pickups originating from china, then i'd be suspicious.
By D_W
#1340831
bob531 wrote:Thanks i guess we just have to trust that the tool/dealer/supplier we buy them off are buying from the respective Japanese factory . I know ive used the saws which i purchased i think from Axminster about 20 years ago so have last edwell, just too many broken teeth now,hence the replacements. I suppose i will just compare them and other than if they cut well ,theres not much i`d notice as mine have back spines on them .(wouldnt really notice the wobbling that seller is talking about.


Tooth fragility depends on the saw. For example, the Z dozuki is a wonderful saw, but it loses teeth in hardwood. gyochuko's version is a little less elegant, but it keeps its teeth. If a saw loses teeth in hardwood, it wasn't intended for it, but that gets lost in translation.

There used to be big argument battles between the japanophiles (most seem to be gone from the forums) and the western users of jacobian type. one asserting flying teeth, the other stating that it doesn't ever happen. Some of that is from heaviness of hand, but quite a lot is dependent on how the saws are made. If someone is making a fairly soft plate and just impulse hardening the tooth tips, they hold up pretty well.

Z's katabas hold up well, but their dozuki doesn't. I don't know why. I suspect that someone at the factory would tell you that written in japanese on the package is information telling you what and what not to do with each saw.
By bob531
#1340843
Thanks for the info, most of mine are Dozukis ,im quite happy with them really, teeth loss has usually been my fault.
I did buy a largish japanese rip saw once and it was probably the worst saw ive ever used .No idea why it doesnt work but i still have it lying about. Not sure what type it is ,not a ryoba as its only got teeth on one side. But it seemed blunt from when first purchased.
By D_W
#1340844
bob531 wrote:Hi,
Ive just bought replacement blades from Tyzack for my old Z saws. When looking around for best prices i came across this guy on ebay who claims most Z saws sold in the UK are fakes made in China, blah ,blah.....
Any truth in this or seller bull.....it!!
Bob
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-Genuine-Japanese-Z-pull-saws-and-3-blades/124101450286?hash=item1ce505da2e%3Ag%3AjNAAAOSwSw5eCIDj&LH_ItemCondition=10


Also, can just about guarantee that tyzack uses a distributor like harima or buys from an agent in japan for those saws - you can see that at 22 pounds, there's plenty of squish in there vs. someone retailing the saws in japan brand new for effectively about 8-10 pounds. you guys do have VAT, too - I'm assuming that's in the 22 pounds?
By bob531
#1340847
I paid only £9 each for a couple of the smaller Dozuki blades, but the larger ones are more expensive. The most expensive blade i bought was the wider version of the 240mm Dozuki Me £26.50 (including VAT and delivery)
User avatar
By Steve Maskery
#1340850
Certainly not all "Japanese" saws are made equal. I have never been one for nicknacks or ornaments. But when I do go on holiday, if I can, I bring back something useful by which to remember the trip. Often it is kitchen related (last year I went to Maine and brought back a cast iron lobster-shaped trivet. I love it. But made in China...).
When I went to Iceland in a previous life, there was one woody toolshop in Reykjavik. They had a "Japanese" saw, so I bought it as a memento. Made in Sweden. Well OK, the Swedes do decent steel. It was a horrible thing, I never got on with it and I no longer have it. I do have other Japanese saws and I really like them, in fact I have been using one today. But "Japanese" does not necessarily mean better than Western. There are saws and then there are saws.
By profchris
#1340890
I have a couple of dozuki saws, bought from Japan via eBay. They have Sandvik blades! Work nicely, I've not lost ant teeth although I work mainly hardwoods.