Inca bandsaw

[John Brown]

Bear in mind that the Inca wheels and tyres are not crowned and, as far as I understand it, the blades are not supposed to ride in the centre of the wheel. The teeth of the blade should actually be free of the tyre. I know this sounds strange, but it is what I have read and mine works fine like that. My Inca's wheels are not co-planar, BTW, and I don't believe it would be possible to adjust them to be so.
There is a Yahoo special interest group for Inca tools - if you're not aware of it already I will try to find a link.

 

[jimi43]

CLICK HERE TO GO TO INCA WOODWORKING GROUP ON YAHOO

Jim

 

[sometimewoodworker]

Bear in mind that the Inca wheels and tyres are not crowned and, as far as I understand it, the blades are not supposed to ride in the centre of the wheel. The teeth of the blade should actually be free of the tyre.

That was also how I have been running mine, and that is in the setup in the manual too.

I know this sounds strange, but it is what I have read and mine works fine like that.

There is one exception to that. That is if you have the fretsaw adapter and blade then that blade should run in the centre of the tyre.

My Inca's wheels are not co-planar, BTW, and I don't believe it would be possible to adjust them to be so.

I've never checked mine. However I believe they must be, as I can set the tracking with exactly the same amount of the blade projecting from the edge of the tyre. I don't think this could happen if they weren't coplanar.

There is a Yahoo special interest group for Inca tools - if you're not aware of it already I will try to find a link.

I think that has already been posted.
The 2 things I would like for mine are a set of tyres (they must need changeling sometime) And the extension to the mitre gage. I've still got the flip stop but the extension didn't make it to Thailand

 

[John Brown]

I have a set of bright orange urethane tyres that I bought on ebay(from the US - I had them sent to a relation in the US and collected them when I was over there). I haven't installed them yet, as the originals don't seem too bad. Once again, if you like I will try and find a link - unless Jim posts it first!

 

[John Brown]

I have a set of bright orange urethane tyres that I bought on ebay(from the US - I had them sent to a relation in the US and collected them when I was over there). I haven't installed them yet, as the originals don't seem too bad. Once again, if you like I will try and find a link - unless Jim posts it first!

In fact if you search on eBay for "Bandsaw tires" you'll get there straight away.

 

[Krysstel]

Thanks for the response everyone.
I should have mentioned in my last post that the wheels are indeed not coplanar. This I had of cource checked as part of the WE4 setup :wink:

Steve.
The bottom spindle has a key which corresponds with a key slot on the wheel. The wheel is a tight push fit on the spindle/key and is secured with a grub screw. On the end of the spindle is a bolt with large washer that stops the wheel sliping off the spindle if the grub screw loosens.
My solution is to move the lower wheel slightly out until I get both wheels coplanar, lock it off with the grub screw and then pack out behind the securing bolt/washer so that tightening the bolt doesn't simply push the wheel back on the spindle to where it was before.

Seems logical to me that the blade should be tracked so the teeth are just off the edge of the wheels as at the moment I feel the thrust bearings are adjusted a long way back as a result of how far back on the wheels I've got the blade positioned. Particularly the top bearing is almost as far in as it can go and there's certainly not enough adjustment left for me to run anything bigger than a 1/2" blade - and that can't be right.

John.
My view is that somehow I have to get the wheels coplanar if the blade is to track with the teeth off both wheels. As it is now, if I adjust the upper wheel so the teeth track off the wheel then on the lower wheel the blade is only just hanging on with half the blade off the wheel. At one stage during the adjustment I had the blade in what is probably the optimum postion on the lower wheel but then the upper wheel was tracking in the middle - that's how far out of coplanar the wheels are :shock:

Jim.
I've already joined the Yahoo group but havn't actually found much info there that helped much, although I could of course post some questions #-o
Regarding the lignum blocks. I've decided to save putting them in until I've got the tracking right. Am a bit afraid of scoring them with the blade teeth :wink:
----------------------------------------
One new issue.
The dust extraction port hangs from the lower thrust bearing and is secured to the chassis by a screw. I'm thinking of chopping off the part that goes under the thrust bearing as I feel it interferes with the bearing. Has anyone else done a similar mod, or done any other mods to improve the dust extraction ?
I also meantioned the dip in the table yesterday. Should I be worried about it ?


Mark

 

[John Brown]

If I were to move the lower wheel out at all, I doubt that I could get the top thrust bearing out far enough to work with a 1/4 inch blade. Unless I took a hacksaw to the aluminium blade guard. That, and the fact that I don't think my saw has been messed with, lead me to believe that the wheels do not necessarily need to be co-planar. And the fact that I'm fairly certain the top wheel adjustment actually tilts the wheel, rather than moving it in and out whilst maintaining its vertical orientation.

Re. Dust extraction: My Inca predates such things. I bought a vacuum cleaner nozzle, cut a piece out of the plastic casing and made my own.
The other mod I made (inspired by a post on the Yahoo site) was to add a small polycarbonate window such that I can see the tension gauge without removing the cover, although now I'm doubting whether it's really imperative to de-tension the blade.

I'm considering trying to make some table inserts out of 2mm acrylic that I have sitting around, as mine is a bit chewed up. Ideally, I'd like to get to know someone with a 3D printer, who could run a few up....

Anyway, I'll be interested to hear how you get on.

 

[Krysstel]

The top wheel adjustment does tilt the wheel. If you tilt the top of the wheel back/in then the blade will track further in on the top wheel and further out on the bottom. And the opposite if you tilt the top wheel out. However, whatever you do with the tilting it is impossible to get the blade to track at the same place on both wheels if they are not in line with each other - coplanar. Correct me if I'm wrong here Steve :wink:

You're probaly right about using a 1/4" blade if the goal is to have it tracking with the teeth off the wheel/tyre. I would imagine that with such a narrow blade one would have to track it so the teeth were on the tyre, if for no other reason than that with only a small portion of the blade then on the tyre there would be a risk of the blade slipping off the wheel.

Whereabouts did you insert your dust extraction nozzel in the casing ? Maybe I can improve the extraction by having 2 outlets.

Mark

 

[John Brown]

Whereabouts did you insert your dust extraction nozzel in the casing ? Maybe I can improve the extraction by having 2 outlets.

Pretty much the same place that the later saw has the nozzle, as far as I can having only seen pictures.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

The top wheel adjustment does tilt the wheel. If you tilt the top of the wheel back/in then the blade will track further in on the top wheel and further out on the bottom. And the opposite if you tilt the top wheel out.

You have got that part wrong. When a saw is correctly setup the tracking adjust (which does move the top wheels vertical orientation) will cause the blade to change its position in the same direction on both wheels

Track out at the top blade moves to the front of both wheels, in at the top blade moves to the rear of both wheels

However, whatever you do with the tilting it is impossible to get the blade to track at the same place on both wheels if they are not in line with each other - coplanar. Correct me if I'm wrong here Steve :wink:

that is correct

You're probaly right about using a 1/4" blade if the goal is to have it tracking with the teeth off the wheel/tyre. I would imagine that with such a narrow blade one would have to track it so the teeth were on the tyre, if for no other reason than that with only a small portion of the blade then on the tyre there would be a risk of the blade slipping off the wheel.

A 1/4" blade will track with the teeth just off the tyre no problem

 

[Krysstel]

Seems to me the most important word here is "coplanar". If the wheels are not coplanar then tracking the blade correctly will never be successful.
I'll look at the problem again this evening and accurately check the coplanarity. One thing I have thought of is that I've had both wheels and the tracking mechanism off and just maybe I've remounted the top wheel too far out. If that's not where the problem lies then I'll move the bottom wheel out as necessary to acheive coplanarity.
Whatever, as Jerome mentioned earlier, the saw works happily as it is but it would be nice to get it better, ie; perfect :wink:

Mark

 

[sometimewoodworker]

If I were to move the lower wheel out at all, I doubt that I could get the top thrust bearing out far enough to work with a 1/4 inch blade. Unless I took a hacksaw to the aluminium blade guard.

As the saw is designed for the teeth to track just off both tires, the size of blade makes no difference to the location of the aluminium blade guard. all blades (except the fretsaw blade) should track with the teeth the same distance from the blade guard, just off the tires.

In Mark's pics

Mark

You can see that the blade is not tracking correctly. It should both be just off the tires. The bottom is better than the top but you can see that the bottom thrust bearing has almost no travel left. The blade needs to track about 3mm further out

That, and the fact that I don't think my saw has been messed with, lead me to believe that the wheels do not necessarily need to be co-planar.

If the blades can track in the same place on both wheels then your saw is setup correctly.

If the blade will not track in the same place then it's not set correctly. And the probable problem would be the wheels not being coplanar.

And the fact that I'm fairly certain the top wheel adjustment actually tilts the wheel, rather than moving it in and out whilst maintaining its vertical orientation.

That is correct.

.[/quote]

 

[Steve Maskery]

Can I put a different perspective? And yes, I do know that I am in a minority, and yes, you can call me arrogant, you won't be the first, but I really do think that manufacturers' recommendations for blade position are simply wrong. And I believe I can justify my stance.

First let me state a caveat. The Inca, IIRC, has a direct drive motor which is flange mounted. No pulleys. That does make it more difficult to track the bottom wheel, I'll grant you. You are reliant on the manufacturers doing the job properly for you. I had forgotten that. But as it is a very well-made machine, let us assume that they have done it properly.

Now then, will someone please explain to me why it is OK to have the blade in the middle if it is 1/16" wide but not if it is 6mm wide? I'm a bear of very little brain, but that seems to me to be totally nuts. It's either OK or it isn't.

Furthermore (and I do realise this is more important on crowned wheels than flat ones) how on earth can you have the blade cutting straight ahead if it is on the front of a (particularly crowned) wheel. It can't and it doesn't. So if it is cutting off at 1 o'clock you have to twist the rip fence to accommodate it. That means that your mitre track is useless.

Forget all notion of tracking the blade at the front, get it where is is cutting true north, wherever on the tyre that is, keep you rip fence parallel to your mitre track and let blade drift be a distant memory.

I've done it this way for years now, have taught others to do it this way and no-one has yet told me that they are unhappy with the resultant performance.

You could, of course, be the first

There, I've been and gone and said it.

S

 

[sometimewoodworker]

I also meantioned the dip in the table yesterday. Should I be worried about it ?
Mark

Sorry I can't check mine till next month

 

[John Brown]

As the saw is designed for the teeth to track just off both tires, the size of blade makes no difference to the location of the aluminium blade guard. all blades (except the fretsaw blade) should track with the teeth the same distance from the blade guard, just off the tires.

You misunderstand me. The aluminium blade guard only just allows the top thrust bearing to reach the back of a 1/4 inch blade.
I've just re-read my post, and I don't think I could have made that clearer...

 

[John Brown]

While I hesitate, as a total novice, to disagree with Steve(whose WE DVDs I do have), the Inca wheels/tyres are not crowned, so I can't understand how tracking the blade can affect the cutting direction.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

Now then, will someone please explain to me why it is OK to have the blade in the middle if it is 1/16" wide but not if it is 6mm wide? I'm a bear of very little brain, but that seems to me to be totally nuts. It's either OK or it isn't.

I think that the reason for the fretsaw blade having a different tracking location is that it uses totally different guides

 

[sometimewoodworker]

As the saw is designed for the teeth to track just off both tires, the size of blade makes no difference to the location of the aluminium blade guard. all blades (except the fretsaw blade) should track with the teeth the same distance from the blade guard, just off the tires.

You misunderstand me. The aluminium blade guard only just allows the top thrust bearing to reach the back of a 1/4 inch blade.
I've just re-read my post, and I don't think I could have made that clearer...

I understand now. And I can't answer that point as my saw is 3,000 miles away so I can't check at the moment.

However do your blades track in the same place on both wheels or are they like mark shows except in reverse?

If they track in the same place on both wheels I cant respond until I check mine.

If they don't track in the same place I suggest that your saw is not correctly setup.

 

[Krysstel]

Now then, will someone please explain to me why it is OK to have the blade in the middle if it is 1/16" wide but not if it is 6mm wide? I'm a bear of very little brain, but that seems to me to be totally nuts. It's either OK or it isn't.

Furthermore (and I do realise this is more important on crowned wheels than flat ones) how on earth can you have the blade cutting straight ahead if it is on the front of a (particularly crowned) wheel. It can't and it doesn't. So if it is cutting off at 1 o'clock you have to twist the rip fence to accommodate it. That means that your mitre track is useless.
S

Logic tells me Steve is on the right track here.
Although I never raised the question as to why tracking off the tyre was important I assumed it had to do with the teeth possibly damaging the tyre. I could not think of any other reason why it should be recommended and so long as tyre damage is not an issue then I believe Steve's approach is correct.

Whether my particular Inca is one of the few not set up correctly by the manufacturer wil have to wait until I can confirm if I have reinstalled the top wheel incorrecly or not. But, since the two retaining plates went back without any problem, I strongly doubt the wheel is incorrectly mounted, which leads me back to moving the bottom wheel out to acheive coplanarity - which I know I don't have now.

Mark

 

[sometimewoodworker]

Can I put a different perspective? And yes, I do know that I am in a minority, and yes, you can call me arrogant, you won't be the first, but I really do think that manufacturers' recommendations for blade position are simply wrong. And I believe I can justify my stance.

First let me state a caveat. The Inca, IIRC, has a direct drive motor which is flange mounted. No pulleys. That does make it more difficult to track the bottom wheel, I'll grant you. You are reliant on the manufacturers doing the job properly for you. I had forgotten that. But as it is a very well-made machine, let us assume that they have done it properly.

Now then, will someone please explain to me why it is OK to have the blade in the middle if it is 1/16" wide but not if it is 6mm wide? I'm a bear of very little brain, but that seems to me to be totally nuts. It's either OK or it isn't.

Furthermore (and I do realise this is more important on crowned wheels than flat ones) how on earth can you have the blade cutting straight ahead if it is on the front of a (particularly crowned) wheel. It can't and it doesn't. So if it is cutting off at 1 o'clock you have to twist the rip fence to accommodate it. That means that your mitre track is useless.

Forget all notion of tracking the blade at the front, get it where is is cutting true north, wherever on the tyre that is, keep you rip fence parallel to your mitre track and let blade drift be a distant memory.

I've done it this way for years now, have taught others to do it this way and no-one has yet told me that they are unhappy with the resultant performance.

You could, of course, be the first

There, I've been and gone and said it.

S

Steve you seem to have missed a point or 2. One is that many (some/most) blades will not cut "true north" even if the blade is tracking perfectly. That is why Bandsaw fences can be adjusted to compensate. Also you can take that into account with the miter guide.

Another point is that with a crowned wheel you may be able to adjust for a blades cutting off true ( I don't know if this is even possible) by having the blade slightly toed in or out but with a flat (INCA) tyre it doesn't work.

A third point is that with crowned tyres the teeth are probably not touching the tyre but if you track the INCA in the centre they will, and will (over time) damage its surface.