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By LancsRick
#1231168
I don't doubt you for a minute custard I just can't figure it out in my head! Unless the next board you put in upside down so Amy variance cancels out?
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By AndyT
#1231177
Agreed, that's a lovely clear explanation. Thanks again for what must have been a non-trivial amount of time and effort.

If I could add one little tip from my own experience, if you are making a table or something else with an edge jointed top, make the top first. Then measure it and size the supporting parts to suit. If you need several goes at getting the edges to match, your top may end up somewhat narrower than you expected - at least, mine did. :oops:
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By Sheffield Tony
#1231185
Just4Fun wrote:Custard, can you please comment on a technique I use that you have not mentioned?
What I do is to put 2 boards side by side in the vice, and plane the 2 together. Then if I don't plane at exactly 90 degrees it doesn't matter because the error on one board has an exactly compensating error on the other board. I still try to plane at 90 degrees but don't worry too much about it, so long as I am somewhere near. I find this quicker, partly because I don't spend time getting to exactly 90 degrees and partly because I plane 2 boards at the same time.


This is what I was taught to do at school - and with thin boards at least, it seems easier to plane square when they are doubled up. But I guess with thick boards and a cambered iron, the effect of the camber becomes less useful ?
By John15
#1231192
Thanks for the above posts Custard. I struggle with the edge joint and it usually takes me several attempts to get it right. Often my problem is a gap at each end. I haven't tried the hollowing technique before but will do next time.

John
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By Ttrees
#1231204
LancsRick wrote:I don't doubt you for a minute custard I just can't figure it out in my head! Unless the next board you put in upside down so Amy variance cancels out?

I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons, I take from it that...
Its a project to show that one needs to have components that sit well on edge so you can apply this technique to assembling/marking out components with more accuracy.

I've also noticed the error at the top as is pictured as being more apparent when sitting on edge on bearers, simulating a wider panel, instead of just sitting the work on the bench, or a square against the face.
I've since ditched the titemark style marking gauge for this, (thicknessing tall stiles) and switched to a stainless steel analogue calipers instead just feeling around
and locking it at the lowest spot in the panel, instead of striking a line around the whole panel ...I've only being doing this on door stiles for the next while, but will use this technique in future.
I use the marking gauge for marking mortises now, but the calipers for marking the tenons, getting me within test fitting tolerances.
Another reason to get a nice low angle plane or a wooden try :D
Thanks Custard
Last edited by Ttrees on 10 Jul 2018, 11:43, edited 2 times in total.
By AES
#1231228
VERY many thanks to Custard for a very well-written and meticulously pictured post. That clearly did NOT take just "a few minutes" to produce and is a great service to people like me who have trouble with such "little" jobs - and I suspect quite a few other members here as well!

To the Mods: may I suggest that this is made a sticky?

Custard, the "thanks button" doesn't do you justice - many thanks Sir. =D> =D> =D>
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By custard
#1231344
Just4Fun wrote:What I do is to put 2 boards side by side in the vice, and plane the 2 together. Then if I don't plane at exactly 90 degrees it doesn't matter because the error on one board has an exactly compensating error on the other board.


I'll sometimes do the same thing, especially when I'm edge jointing saw cut veneers. It certainly can work, but there are some potential pitfalls,

-you need a straight rather than a cambered edge to the iron. Getting a truly straight edge is actually harder than it looks, I suspect most people end up with some small degree of camber even if they don't realise it.

-holding two boards together, so that the top edges are tight against each other isn't always that straightforward. And the longer and wider the boards the greater the problem. In hand tool only workshops you would probably only have one true reference face on each board, which then also has to be taken into account.

-there's every chance if you use this technique that you'll be planing against the grain on at least one of the boards. No problems you may say, just use a closely set cap iron. That's true, but I mentioned earlier how many less experienced woodworkers struggle to commence the cut cleanly. With a closely set cap iron (or a high pitched frog, or a steeply pitched bevel up plane) this problem, of massacring the first inch of the cut, increases exponentially.

There are work arounds for these issues, but I'm just pointing out that this technique isn't the simple, silver bullet solution that its sometimes portrayed as in the books and on YouTube!
By Just4Fun
#1231350
Good points Custard.
I'm just pointing out that this technique isn't the simple, silver bullet solution that its sometimes portrayed as in the books and on YouTube!

Nothing ever is, unfortunately. However I am happy that you haven't identified any big issue I have been missing and the workarounds for the problems are all things I have been doing for years. Whether I was taught those workarounds or hit on them by luck is lost in the mists of time.
By novocaine
#1231361
well that was an interesting read, thanks Custard.

In my day to day working life I do a lot of training, as part of this I train trainers (not the running sort) and over the past few months it has become somewhat apparent to me that the hardest thing to teach someone is something you've been doing for so long that it's second nature to you. I think this is a case in point, where unless you stand back and watch what you are doing for an hour it's impossible to get someone else to understand.

So, thank you for taking the time to explain this in terms that others can understand with clear pictures, I'm sure what would have been a 5 minute job for you to do must have taken an few hours in this circumstance.
By LancsRick
#1231383
What is your recommended clamping approach Custard when gluing boards up? In the past when I have tried this I have ended up with the boards wanting to bow, but is that an issue with my edges having a convex profile, or my clamping technique?