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By D_W
#1337800
Most of the dust settles below or behind the grinder. I think (I've never measured) that my grinder is probably about 6 feet from the butt end of my bench, and tucked into a corner next to a built in cabinet in an attempt to limit where the dust goes. I've never had any issue with contamination on my bench (and I still do heavy tool grinding on a harder brown wheel, even though regular grinding of hardened steel is now done on CBN).

I can say this, though - anything remotely close to being beside, behind or under the grinder will be absolutely filthy and coated. I can vacuum a lateral swath below the grinder, behind it and under it and literally see enough filth to make the floor hard to see if I have been making tools or when I used to bring old ones back up to spec. You do sort of have to give up that space for the grinder, but anything more than a few feet away in front of the grinder won't suffer any issues.
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By Bm101
#1337801
Cheshirechappie wrote:
Second point is a tip from Barry Iles (one of Ashley Iles' sons, and currently on of the owners of that firm), who learned his trade as a young man from the Sheffield cutlers and edge-tool makers. Dress the periphery of the wheel to a very slight crown, and when grinding, keep the tool moving side to side. That will practically eliminate the chances of over-heating the tool.


Clear this up for me please Mr C. I can't picture it.
By crowning the wheel are you reducing the amount of steel in contact with the wheel? Like skewing a plane iron in the cut? You are grinding on a point so to speak.
I don't doubt it's true. Just trying to understand it.
Sorry for being slow....
(homer)
By D_W
#1337811
What he's saying is correct. You get a point of contact and the blade gets intense heat production on that point for a second, but you don't stay on it long enough for it to matter. Faffing with a flat wheel that's not CBN is a good distraction to allow for heat build up, and your bevel may not be hot half of the way across a flat stone, but it could be by the time it gets to the far edge.

The crowned wheel also gives you much more control to rotate irons and chisels, etc, when the iron may not have ideal geometry (or the rest setup isn't perfect). On a flat wheel, you end up working the iron or chisel on one edge or the other doing that, but sometimes losing control of which edge you're on and inducing a burn.

I probably couldn't explain all of the ways its better verbally (especially being the man of few words that i am :D ), but for touch and craftsman's sense (things that we do that are hard to put in words) the crowned wheel is much nicer for day to day bevel grinding.
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By bp122
#1337812
Bm101 wrote:Sorry for being slow....
(homer)


Something was said... Not good... (homer) (homer) (homer)
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By Bm101
#1337818
Thanks David. Enough to know I have it right.
Cheers. Good tip! Thanks Mr C.

@BP. sometimes even I'm surprised I made it this far.
:wink:
By D_W
#1337824
The same tip was popularized in the states by Joel Moskowitz.

But it came from the same place - he sells Iles tools and iles showed it to him. I couldn't tell anyone the last time I actually burned a tool on a brown al-ox wheel, and that's hundreds (or more) bevel grinds before going to CBN. I don't keep water at the grinder either, but you have to be perceptive to do that.

What I do to prevent burning is the following. Light pass across the wheel, pull the tool across the palm of your off hand. if you're afraid it's really hot, pull it fast across. The slower you can pull it, the cooler it is. If you can't do that, the tool is too hot. Even doing this, the refresh is not more than a minute at the grinder, and it's only every 5 hones or so.
By Cheshirechappie
#1337825
To be absolutely truthful, Chris, I haven't seen a detailed explanation of how an why it works, I just posted it on the basis that if it's good enough for the Iles brothers, it's good enough for me!

That said, a couple of things do occur. A very slight crown will reduce the chances of a wheel corner nicking a long edge (happened to me once regrinding a drawknife on the Tormek - boy, did that nick take some dressing out!). Also, it means the grinding action is concentrated nearer the middle of the wheel on a small area, which, because you're traversing the tool, comes into contact and then out again quite quickly. Thus, the bit that's been in contact (and heated) gets a chance to cool again before it's next contact, which is also brief.

You'd think this would slow the overall grinding process down, but it doesn't seem to. It's as if the small contact area does the work that the whole wheel width would do if in contact. The small area cuts a bit deeper than if all the particles across the whole wheel width were in contact, each cutting shallow, rather like a plough iron will take a thicker shaving than a try plane iron does in facing a board.

Sorry that's all a bit conjectural. As I say, not sure in detail exactly why it works, but I know it does.
By Cheshirechappie
#1337826
D_W wrote:The same tip was popularized in the states by Joel Moskowitz.

But it came from the same place - he sells Iles tools and iles showed it to him.


That's where I got the tip from, too. I was going to put it in my original comment, but it just seemed like too much verbal padding for that post, TBH.

To be more specific - Joel's Blog on the Tools For Working Wood website, which is well worth a perusal (the blog, and the website).
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By Bm101
#1337836
Cheshirechappie wrote:T

Sorry that's all a bit conjectural. As I say, not sure in detail exactly why it works, but I know it does.

No. Not at all.
It makes sense. Can't explain it either. Some things are just self intuitive I suppose.
I went to a bbq many years ago. Was running late due to work etc. Got a phone call from the host. Have you left yet? Erm no.
Ahh. Err. Could you being some fire starting tools?
Wheelll ok then.
I turned up and there was 12 -15 bearded males trying to start a fire with newspaper and logs.
Alright chaps I said.
Stand back I'm about to blow your minds and make you more attractive to women in one step.
Look. This sh* is called kindling....

Oh. Ohhh! I've heard of that!!!said Brian excitedly from the marketing dept of some company.
Hopping on one foot with his hand in the air. Not kidding.

:|