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 Post subject: Re: extension costs?
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2018, 10:11 
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It really depends on how complex the build is. We are currently / planning an extension and refit of our kitchen. The extension will replace a small conservatory, knock down a couple of walls. . I manage to get a quote without drawings (although these are being commissioned in the next week or so, through the builder's contacts). So it can be done, he was happy doing this because he has done lots of these types of extensions.

Quote below - He wasnt the cheapest but he was recommended and we got on well through our discussions.

Schedule of works to be carried out (Extension 4.4m x 2.2m) - total cost about £38k...

- To remove and dispose of existing lean too roof and parapet walls as discussed

- To dig new footings for extension 600mm (w) x 900mm (d).

- To fill foundations using a gen1 concrete mix 600mm (w) x 250mm (d)

- To build out of the ground up to D.P.C Level using 7N trench blocks up to DPC level.

- To construct concrete slab firstly by laying down 150mm of sub base hardcore compacting sub base, followed by 25mm of sand blinding, then a D.P.M must be put down, followed by 100mm Celotex insulation and then pouring slab using a pq1 concrete mix 150mm (d), finished with 60mm of screed.

- To construct new extension 4.4m x 2.2m up to wall plate level using cavity walling system, using face brickwork to match property on the external layer and using 100mm thermalite blocks to internal skin, cavity to be insulated using 70mm celotex insulation boards taped with aluminum foil joint tape, door reveals to be closed using cavity closers.

- To supply and put in steel beams complying with structural engineers calculations to span the opening in new extension, all steels to be treated with red oxide primer and to be sat on a minimum of 300mm load bearings.

- To construct lean too roof to new extension according to plan and specifications using 8x2 treated timbers, all braced with truss clips, and wall plates to be strapped every 1800mm to comply with building regs.

- To supply and fit two UPVC Velux S07 roof windows with flashing kits.

- To provide tiled roof to match the property, laying down a breathable membrane and laying tiles onto 2x1 treated battens, roof to be insulated using 150mm of celotex insulation and also roof to be vented for added ventilation and to be sealed with code 4 lead works where roof meets existing building.

- To finish extension with new fascias, soffits and guttering in UPVC

- To run any new drainage works for extension

- To knock out walls according to plans to provide a large open planned kitchen/dinner, supporting upper walls and floors every 6ft using ackro props and then installing structural steel UB’s to take the load of upper walls and floors. Steels to be sat on concrete pad stones with a minimum load bearing of 300mm and to be primed using red oxide primer.

- To box in steels using 1 hour fire rated plasterboard and skim using multi finish plaster and to patch up and make good where needed.

- To plasterboard and skim new extension to a smooth finish.

- To provide new skirting’s to match the property to new extension, priming, undercoating and glossing.

- To self level existing floors into new extension to provide a better finished floor.

- Client to pay for finishing exterior doors to extension

- To supply and fit new upvc back door to utility area.

- All electrical work to be carried out according to plans and to comply with building regs. All electric work will be carried out a NIC registered electrician who will sign off the electrical work and supply a certificate for building control.

- To supply and fit 22 chrome fires rated spot lights to comply with regs.

- To move any sockets and light switches where demolition is taking place.

- To install 15 new PowerPoints in total and electric points to new kitchen area to clients choice.

- To supply and fit TV points in new extension to client choice

- To provide 2 new outside lights feeds, client to supply finishing lights

- All waste will be disposed of via skips and recycled.

- To decorate rooms in colours to client’s choice and all wood work to be primed, undercoated and glossed.

- No allowances have been made for any external patio or paths around new extension but can be arranged.

- To finish floor with either tiles or solid wood flooring to extension and kitchen throughout to clients choice. (Client to supply all tiles or Flooring).

- To get gas safe registered plumber to relocate any gas supply to kitchen or cap off

- To provide protective sheeting throughout property whilst work is in progress

- To block up existing kitchen doorway and plaster both sides of doorway

- To remove and dispose of existing kitchen, tiles and to make good any walls where tiles have been removed.

- To take down ceiling in kitchen, dining area and dispose of to allow for relocation of proposed electrical and plumbing.

- To allow for electrical under flooring heating and digital stat, allowing for latex self-levelling floors to protect wiring before tiling.

- To allow for the fit of new radiator to proposed dining area (Client to supply Radiator and Valves Only)

- To allow for the relocation, alteration or renewal of gas, and water supplies according to kitchen layout and to allow for providing water feed for proposed new fridge.

- To completely tile kitchen floor using tiles supplied by client, using rapid set flexible adhesives and grouts.


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 Post subject: Re: extension costs?
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2018, 13:57 
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I can't believe the prices being quoted. Although not a builder by trade I've done quite a few extensions and a couple of self-build houses just paying brickies and plasterers. The last job I did was extending my garage to get workshop space.

The 17' x 4'6" extension is a continuation of one roof slope, 3 single brick walls, sloping down to 5ft, toothed into original brickwork, with an rsj supporting the original wallplate. 4 ft deep foundation took quite a bit of concrete as bad ground and would easily take cavity wall. Bricky paid day rate, I mixed and laboured some days, did roof, wiring etc. myself, mate and I did the foundation with mini digger and powered wheelbarrow hired for one day. Major single cost was skips to get rid of old brickwork and ground/foundation spoil.

Total cost £3,200. OK, the OP's extension will be higher and cavity wall + plastering etc. but that shouldn't more than double the price as the major cost of foundation, roof, skips etc will remain the same. Didn't use architect or surveyor, did drawings and planning application myself and no building regs. on a garage.


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 Post subject: Re: extension costs?
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2018, 16:21 
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GrahamF wrote:
I can't believe the prices being quoted. Although not a builder by trade I've done quite a few extensions and a couple of self-build houses just paying brickies and plasterers. The last job I did was extending my garage to get workshop space.

The 17' x 4'6" extension is a continuation of one roof slope, 3 single brick walls, sloping down to 5ft, toothed into original brickwork, with an rsj supporting the original wallplate. 4 ft deep foundation took quite a bit of concrete as bad ground and would easily take cavity wall. Bricky paid day rate, I mixed and laboured some days, did roof, wiring etc. myself, mate and I did the foundation with mini digger and powered wheelbarrow hired for one day. Major single cost was skips to get rid of old brickwork and ground/foundation spoil.

Total cost £3,200. OK, the OP's extension will be higher and cavity wall + plastering etc. but that shouldn't more than double the price as the major cost of foundation, roof, skips etc will remain the same. Didn't use architect or surveyor, did drawings and planning application myself and no building regs. on a garage.


Sounds about right for what you have described. If you're able to do most of it yourself, then that makes a huge difference.

Believe the prices on here if you're going to get a good builder to do it.

Yours was roughly 7 square metres, so at £1500 cheapest, that would be £10,500 if a builder did it, including plumbing, electrics, cavity wall & insulation, ceiling & insulation, damp proofed and insulated floor, plastering, painting and decorating. Add a door, window. drainage, it soon adds up if you are
not a DIY'er and you want to live in it.

Decent chippy round here, £200 day cash. Plumber, electrician £300+ a day through the bank. A man and his digger round here is £500+ per day!

Makes me feel dizzy, but there it is.


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 Post subject: Re: extension costs?
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2018, 16:53 
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GrahamF wrote:
I can't believe the prices being quoted. Although not a builder by trade I've done quite a few extensions and a couple of self-build houses just paying brickies and plasterers. The last job I did was extending my garage to get workshop space.

The 17' x 4'6" extension is a continuation of one roof slope, 3 single brick walls, sloping down to 5ft, toothed into original brickwork, with an rsj supporting the original wallplate. 4 ft deep foundation took quite a bit of concrete as bad ground and would easily take cavity wall. Bricky paid day rate, I mixed and laboured some days, did roof, wiring etc. myself, mate and I did the foundation with mini digger and powered wheelbarrow hired for one day. Major single cost was skips to get rid of old brickwork and ground/foundation spoil.

Total cost £3,200. OK, the OP's extension will be higher and cavity wall + plastering etc. but that shouldn't more than double the price as the major cost of foundation, roof, skips etc will remain the same. Didn't use architect or surveyor, did drawings and planning application myself and no building regs. on a garage.


A garage is hardly comparable with a house, and you did a chunk of the work yourself. A single skin wall only 5 ft high isn't a useful guide for an insulated double skin plastered wall 8' high per storey. A garage doesn't have any 2nd fix carpentry. I would give a budget figure for a straight-forward garage on ordinary ground at £750/ sqm....and I know this is right because I've just had the tenders back on Friday for a garage I drew before christmas.

Really, I do this stuff for a living, and people having unrealistic budgets is a big problem. It may well be possible to reduce the costs somewhat by doing certain elements yourself, by managing sub-contractors rather than having a main contractor, but at the stage the OP is at £2000 /sqm + VAT is a reasonable starting point for the conversation. I've had smaller projects recently amount to over £3000+VAT /sqm.

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 Post subject: Re: extension costs?
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2018, 18:19 
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O.K, I see where you're coming from. I've never employed a main contractor for anything, I do what I can myself and pay other trades in cash (bricky, plasterer, sometimes roofer if large) when necessary. The mini digger and powered wheelbarrow hire for footings only cost £100 for the day and retired mate drove the digger for free :)

The price I quoted was for this photo below. Add-on cost if it were a house extension would be extra 3 ft of face brick - plus backing up with block, ties & insulation and plasterer, windows would also be extra. The rest (plumbing, wiring, flooring etc.) I would DIY. Price quoted obviously didn't include the paving.

Attachment:
P1000054a.jpg
P1000054a.jpg [ 132.67 KiB | Viewed 157 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: extension costs?
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2018, 18:29 
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GrahamF wrote:
O.K, I see where you're coming from. I've never employed a main contractor for anything, I do what I can myself and pay other trades in cash (bricky, plasterer, sometimes roofer if large) when necessary. The mini digger and powered wheelbarrow hire for footings only cost £100 for the day and retired mate drove the digger for free :)

The price I quoted was for this photo below. Add-on cost if it were a house extension would be extra 3 ft of face brick - plus backing up with block, ties & insulation and plasterer, windows would also be extra. The rest (plumbing, wiring, flooring etc.) I would DIY. Price quoted obviously didn't include the paving.

Attachment:
P1000054a.jpg


Nice and tidy job though. :D


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 Post subject: Re: extension costs?
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2018, 18:30 
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I found a big difference between builders who were part of a ‘company’ who would do everything, design, plan, build etc, compared with having someone do plans then a builder in to do most stuff and subs for other trades, and me sourcing all fixtures and fittings. May sound obvious but the second approach was c. 30% cheaper. Cost me £20k to convert old kitchen into utility room and shower room, including taking all walls back to bare granite, digging up 125yr old concrete floor and laying new insulated and damp proofed one, taking roof back to joists, replacing some, new sarking and slates, drains connections for toilet etc. Total area 13m2, so £1500/m2. 2011 Aberdeen prices.

Fitz.

PS. I used an architectural technician to do my drawings as they were pretty simple and I knew what I wanted. Was about 50% the cost of an architect.


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 Post subject: Re: extension costs?
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2018, 12:40 
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Fitzroy wrote:
PS. I used an architectural technician to do my drawings as they were pretty simple and I knew what I wanted. Was about 50% the cost of an architect.


One thing I forgot to mention about the DIY houses, as banks/mortgages were involved, and no NHBC certificate, one bank wanted a surveyor's and the other an architects "supervised certificate" These proved useful when houses were sold in later years. No such problem with extensions though.


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 Post subject: Re: extension costs?
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2018, 13:06 
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GrahamF wrote:
. No such problem with extensions though.


That's not always so Graham.

It depends very much on the size and type of extension as well as whether part of permitted development etc however in the case of building work which is a habitable room, has had electrical or plumbing work and especially if subject to building control approval which it almost certainly would need at least in England, when selling you would be asked the appropriate questions and proof with the relevant documents.
If those aren't available it could certainly affect a sale. At the very least the potential buyers would be asking for price reductions.

Bob

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 Post subject: Re: extension costs?
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2018, 15:07 
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Lons wrote:
GrahamF wrote:
. No such problem with extensions though.


That's not always so Graham.

It depends very much on the size and type of extension as well as whether part of permitted development etc however in the case of building work which is a habitable room, has had electrical or plumbing work and especially if subject to building control approval which it almost certainly would need at least in England, when selling you would be asked the appropriate questions and proof with the relevant documents.
If those aren't available it could certainly affect a sale. At the very least the potential buyers would be asking for price reductions.

Bob



Yes, sorry, I was referring to the extensions I had done as opposed to the houses built. I can see where a "customer" would require paperwork these days.

Having been a DIYer for most of my life, it appalls me when I hear what some friends have paid out for quite simple jobs even when they were within PD so regs. minimal.


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 Post subject: Re: extension costs?
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2018, 15:46 
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GrahamF wrote:
...... within PD so regs. minimal.


Careful. PD has no bearing at all on whether works require Building Regs approval.

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 Post subject: Re: extension costs?
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2018, 15:47 
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In Scotland it’s all about warrantable work, even if planning permission is not required if it’s warrantable you have to provide details/drawings to show how you conform to reqs, and apply for a building warrant prior to starting, then there’s an inspection for sign off on completing and issue of the warrant. Selling a house in Scotland where there has been warrantable work but without the warrant is about impossible.

I’ve done plenty of stuff myself and had to get a warrant for about half of it. It’s not a bad system.

F.


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 Post subject: Re: extension costs?
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2018, 16:34 
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GrahamF wrote:
Having been a DIYer for most of my life, it appalls me when I hear what some friends have paid out for quite simple jobs even when they were within PD so regs. minimal.


There lies the whole story Graham. Most competent DIYers, me included look at what we can do for in £s and use that as a basis for our opinions however a DIY price is miles away from a professional company as far as actual costs are concerned.

* If you already have the tools and equipment then wear and tear / replacement won't be factored in to the cost unless they are hired. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's used a DIY project and persuaded myself I'm saving money so I can buy that lusted after tool, maybe used the same argument on swmbo. :wink: Nails, screws, fixings, consumables, clothing, pop equipnent etc comes from our shelves and if we have to go to the shops to get them what about the petrol and couple of hours it took to do that?
* How many cost their time into a DIY job, I mean REALLY cost their time at a realistic rate! Todays generation are different and bring in trades people without a thought usually with the argument " I earn £s an hour at work, why would I want to spend my limited time off when I can pay someone to do it for me". As someone who had to do DIY because we struggled financially in the early days, I find some of the things my kids spend their hard earned on difficult to understand. (hammer)

I'm an avid DIYer, I turn my hand to most things and am rarely beaten which gives me a lot of satisfaction as does the money I save but I'm also a retired builder having owned a small company for some 20 years so I'm experienced enough to know the difference. I always priced my work fairly but certainly wasn't cheapest, had a great reputation for quality work and many repeat customers, a lot of whom remain friends. They got value for money, I got a decent living and profitable company who they knew wouldn't cut corners and would still be around years later if there were problems.
The only way I could do that was to factor in all the relevant costs of running a business. If you want a list of those, Id be happy to list them, it's a long list!

In general people might be surprised by what owners of small companies actually make if it's broken down to an hourly rate as when all the out of hours spent collecting materials, planning, phone calls estimates and paperwork is added on the vast majority are way way over a normal working week.

cheers
Bob

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 Post subject: Re: extension costs?
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2018, 17:10 
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Lons wrote:
The only way I could do that was to factor in all the relevant costs of running a business. If you want a list of those, Id be happy to list them, it's a long list! Cheers Bob


Oh, I well know the costs of running a business, many weeks work being written off against overhead before any profit made and ever increasing employment legislation. I sold out and retired at 53 so I've already had 18 years retirement to enjoy myself :D .


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 Post subject: Re: extension costs?
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2018, 21:27 
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GrahamF wrote:
I sold out and retired at 53 so I've already had 18 years retirement to enjoy myself :D .


Lucky lad Graham, I've been retired only a couple of years and really don't know how I ever had time to work, got to make the most of this life =D>

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