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By sdbranam
#485686
Ok, I've read the back-and-forth here on sharpening techniques, so at the risk of igniting a flame war :shock:, here's a 2-part blog post on giving Mr. Grimsdale's method a try, including a video at the end of part 2.

http://www.closegrain.com/2010/04/grimsdale-method.html

I offer this in the spirit of learning and expanding my skills. Now I'll duck and cover!
By Jake
#485693
OMG you so BANNED.
By Shrubby
#485699
Steve
He's not the Messiah,He's a very naughty boy !
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By MickCheese
#485722
I liked the video, very informative.

Mick
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By bugbear
#485732
sdbranam wrote:Ok, I've read the back-and-forth here on sharpening techniques, so at the risk of igniting a flame war :shock:, here's a 2-part blog post on giving Mr. Grimsdale's method a try, including a video at the end of part 2.

http://www.closegrain.com/2010/04/grimsdale-method.html

I offer this in the spirit of learning and expanding my skills. Now I'll duck and cover!


Hmm. Haven't read Grim's write up for a while. It appears to be evolving into good ol' double bevel.
grim wrote:1. If you already have an edge in good order which just needs a bit of honing:

Start on the fine side of the stone, well charged with oil at all times.
The chisel or plane blade is worked energetically up and down on the oiled stone, being held so that as near as possible it doesn't exceed 30 degrees.

.
.
.

2. An blunt edge which needs a bit more than just honing:

You need to back-off more of the bevel on the coarse (faster) stone so you repeat the process exactly as above but at a shallower maximum angle, usually 25 degrees...


BugBear
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By SBJ
#485886
SDBranam - Nice articles, though you may want to post them on wwuk as it seams that Jacob isn't able to post here any longer and I'm sure he would apprectiate seeing it.


I would be interested to hear what your thoughts are after using the system for a while.



BugBear- I think it always has been, it's not the angles that are different, it's the technique to achieve them. Unfortunately, some people have been more interested in rubbishing Jacob than listening to him.
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By Paul Chapman
#485906
Hi Steve,

I watched your video. I was surprised that you use the strop in your hand rather than on a flat surface. Using it the way you do would surely tend to dull the edge :?

Cheers :wink:

Paul
By sdbranam
#486026
SBJ, thanks for the reminder, I've cross-posted.

Paul, I based stropping on a hand-held piece of leather on the video here: http://furnituremakersapprentice.net/sharpening.html. And anecdotally, the old timers supposedly used to strop on their calloused palms, though I'm not sure how reliable that information is!

However, this article http://antiquetools.com/sharp/sharpstropping.html at Tools For Working Wood/Woodworking Museum clearly shows stropping on the flat.

I'm interested in hearing opinions on the details of either method. These are the two best demonstrations and descriptions I've seen of stropping (most books and articles just say "strop the edge"), and of course, they are completely opposite in approach!
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By ByronBlack
#486034
Steve, good write up, this is very similar to a method taught to me by Bruce Luckhurst, but we didn't make a consertive effort in making the convex round over, instead we held the iron at the desired angle and rocked back and fourth maintaining the angle, this produced excellent results. I'm not sure I understand the benefit of the convexing aspect, and I fear for the tips of your fingers with the speed you go at! :D but I really enjoyed the video.

Out of interest, why the change from diamond stones to oil stones? Wouldn't grims method work equally well on the dmt's?
By sdbranam
#486039
Byron, my interpretation is that it's not so much a matter of specifically trying to get a convex bevel, it's more a matter of not obsessing so much over a flat bevel. Don't need laser-guided GPS-enabled jigs. Just let it fly. The convex bevel is then the logical consequence. Rather than fearing the curve, embrace it.

The one definite issue with a flat bevel is that it has to be repeatable. Once you've carefully gotten a 30 degree bevel on there, if the next time you hone it you only get to 29.9, you may not actually be resharpening it. Or you end up having to take off a lot more metal. That was definitely one of my complaints with using a jig. I found all that fussing about annoying and unnecessarily time-consuming. I wanted to get back to working the wood.

And I'm sure blood is an effective honing medium :D (I am up to date on my tetanus shot).

This method did indeed work equally well on DMTs. I have a couple of reasons for not using them.

One is that I'm trying to get my hand tool skills down to bare essentials. My particular obsession is to be able to work the way someone in the 1800's did; I admire that versatility and self-reliance. As a hobbyist I'm clearly romanticizing that aspect a bit, because some of these tasks done hour after hour, day after day would be crippling labor. Hand-ripping a rough 8' plank is fun; hand-ripping 1000 of them will kill you. But the India stones appeal more to my desire for traditional methods than the DMTs. Norton probably uses laser-guided GPS-enabled robotic cutters to produce them!

Second, when people ask me how to do stuff, instead of telling them to go spend $250 on high-tech sharpening stones (and watch their eyes pop out of their heads), I can honestly offer them a reasonable alternative that only costs half as much (less popping). I realize it's an investment, but it's possible to buy in at different levels.
By Vann
#486042
sdbranam wrote:And anecdotally, the old timers supposedly used to strop on their calloused palms, though I'm not sure how reliable that information is!
I was taught to strop an edge on my palm and I still do it every time (it's about the only handtool skill I have retained after 30 years out of the trade :oops: ). I've never cut myself either (that I recall).

However, this is done without any honing compound, rather it's purpose was said to be to remove any feather edge still clinging to the cutting edge after sharpening.

Cheers, Vann.
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By Modernist
#486049
Vann wrote:
sdbranam wrote:And anecdotally, the old timers supposedly used to strop on their calloused palms, though I'm not sure how reliable that information is!
I was taught to strop an edge on my palm and I still do it every time (it's about the only handtool skill I have retained after 30 years out of the trade :oops: ). I've never cut myself either (that I recall).

However, this is done without any honing compound, rather it's purpose was said to be to remove any feather edge still clinging to the cutting edge after sharpening.

Cheers, Vann.


I agree with that, and the reasoning, but take the slightly safer route of using Levis
By grahamar
#486053
Thanks for the information and video.
I found it very interesting and appreciate the time/effort in sharing it.

I currently don't have the Arkansas Hard Stone ( the grey/gray stone) you used at the end. I stop at the Norton Fine stone.

I was wondering what affect honing on the Hard stone has compared to just finishing on the Norton Fine stone ?

Thanks

Graham
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By dannykaye
#486057
sdbranam wrote:SBJ, thanks for the reminder, I've cross-posted.

Paul, I based stropping on a hand-held piece of leather on the video here: http://furnituremakersapprentice.net/sharpening.html. And anecdotally, the old timers supposedly used to strop on their calloused palms, though I'm not sure how reliable that information is!


In school in the 70's I was taught to strop on my hand to remove the burr...
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By woodbloke
#486064
dannykaye wrote:
sdbranam wrote:SBJ, thanks for the reminder, I've cross-posted.

Paul, I based stropping on a hand-held piece of leather on the video here: http://furnituremakersapprentice.net/sharpening.html. And anecdotally, the old timers supposedly used to strop on their calloused palms, though I'm not sure how reliable that information is!


In school in the 70's I was taught to strop on my hand to remove the burr...


In Jeremy Broun's DVD about Alan Peters, he's shown stropping a plane iron on his hand. Something I've never done and wouldn't recommend either as a leather strop glued to a bit of mdf has got to be the cheapest method of refining an edge and probably much safer to boot - Rob