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By Derek Cohen (Perth, Oz)
#1331886
MikeG. wrote:Nice, Derek.

In the same way that shoulders can be undercut, so can the mitres. You have two edges (top and outside face) which will be on show and have to be perfect, but the rest could angle away slightly on both pieces (tail and pin boards). Particularly in a hard wood like jarrah, taking the carcass joints apart repeatedly to adjust is an absolute pain, so removing one possible area of mis-fit might reduce the risk. .....


Thanks Mike. It is not just that Jarrah is hard; it is also brittle and this example is very interlocked. But I am used to it, and the fiddleback in this piece is spectacular.

In the current build it is not possible to undercut the mitres to make them fit. The reason is the inside edge on the model calls for a bevel/mitre all the way around. I plan to do a slight cove. In any event, this open up the mitre from the inside, and any undercutting would show.

Regards from Perth

Derek
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By Derek Cohen (Perth, Oz)
#1332292
Having completed the dovetailing of the case, the next step is to bevel the front face, and rebate the rear for a back panel.

I had been considering a cove in place of a bevel, however when I mocked this up it came across as appearing too busy. So, back to the bevel.

The angle for the bevel was finalised at 55 degrees. This enabled a 6mm (1/4") flat edge and a bevel that ran to roughly 4mm of the first dovetail. A 45 degree bevel would run into the dovetail.

The lines for the bevel were marked and then roughed out on the table saw ...

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The table saw is a slider, and the rip fence was used to position spacers, before clamping a panel for cutting the bevel.

The bevel was then finished with a hand plane ...

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This Jarrah is particularly interlocked but planes well with both a high cutting angle (the little HNT Gordon palm smoother) and a close set chipbreaker (the Veritas Custom #4).

Once the bevels were completed, the rear rebate was ploughed ...

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Now the panels could be assembled into a case once again, and the work examined for tuning.

Three of the bevels needed tuning. This ranged from a smidgeon here ...

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... to a largish amount ...

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The case was dissembled and the bevelled edged planed down, re-assembled, checked, pulled apart again, planed ...

The rebates at the rear turned out to not require any tuning, with the exception of one corner ...

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... where I had obviously forgotten to plane! :) :\

That was easily rectified ( ... but the case had to be dissembled again). Finally, this is the rear of the case and the completed rebates ...

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This is a rebated corner ...

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Here are the front bevelled corners ...

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This illustrates by the mitres on the corners of the dovetailed case needed to be perfect. Any undercutting would show here.

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Next, the drawer dividers need to be done. I'll mention here - since I would appreciate the thoughts of others - that this area has been my biggest headache.

The reason is that my niece would like the drawers to have the appearance of a single board. However, to achieve this, because of the bevels, is quite complicated.

First of all, the table cannot have just two drawers. The width of the drawers will be greater than their depth, and this would likely lead to racking. Consequently, I plan to build three drawers, which will be more favourable for the width vs depth ratio..

Secondly, if the drawers have dividers between them, which they need (since I do not do runners), then there will be a gap between the drawer fronts (which will not flow uninterrupted).

As I see it, there are two choices: the first is to build the drawers with planted fronts. This is not a method I like (but it may be expedient). The second option is to set the dovetailed drawers sides back (recess them) to account for the internal drawer dividers.

Thoughts?

Regards from Perth

Derek
Last edited by Derek Cohen (Perth, Oz) on 25 Jan 2020, 17:15, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Steve Maskery
#1332299
Derek, I don't know what a Since board is. Can you elaborate, please, I'm enjoying following this, even though it is way above my pay grade :)
By SammyQ
#1332301
The reason is that my niece would like the drawers to have the appearance of a since board. However, to achieve this, because of the bevels, is quite complicated.


Pour vous. Sam
User avatar
By AndyT
#1332302
Predictive text error for "single" presumably?

And for what it's worth, planted fronts sound like the right choice to me.
I don't think anyone will think they are a cheating way to cover up big gaps! Not on this piece.
User avatar
By Steve Maskery
#1332306
That makes sense, thank you.

Derek Cohen (Perth, Oz) wrote:
And I very much doubt any of this is beyond your excellent skills.

I'm flattered, Derek, but I assure you I couldn't do dovetails like that. I'd mitre it, stick in a few biscuits and tell everybody they were secret mitred dovetails.

:)
User avatar
By MikeG.
#1332316
Lovely skills, as always, but this is another piece which takes me back to the 1970s. It would be a dull old world if we all had the same tastes. My parents had a telephone table along very similar lines when I was a kid in Perth. In particular, it had a chamfered front edge to the carcass, similar round legs, and similar proportions. If I recall correctly, it had 3 compartments but only the outside 2 were drawers. The middle one was for the phone books. That of course would solve your problem. Personally, I would show the verticals as dividers between the drawers and do normal drawer boxes. I actively dislike un-divided drawers where it looks like one piece of wood has been cut in to 2, 3 or even 4 pieces. I assume that's not going to satisfy the aesthetic you are after, though.
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By Derek Cohen (Perth, Oz)
#1332373
What I need are lipped drawers.The question was whether I make them the easy way, which is by planting (glueing) on fronts. Or, whether I build them out of one piece, which is a lot more work as it requires creating half blind dovetails in a rebate.

For those unfamiliar with lipped drawers ..

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This is the work of Christian Becksvoort ...

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At this point, I am going to do it the hard way and make half-blind sockets in a rebated front. This is similar to building a secret dovetail.

To do this for all the drawers, the insides of the case at each end will require a spacer, essentially a 6mm panel glued to the insides. Each side will be half the thickness of the two middle drawer dividers (each 12mm). The centre dividers will be attached in a dado top and bottom.

Regards from Perth

Derek
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By AndyT
#1332384
Will you work a moulding on the fronts, as on the drawers in the pictures? I'd imagine a square edge would let the grain run through all three much better. Plenty of challenges along the way!
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By Derek Cohen (Perth, Oz)
#1333971
The basic case complete ...

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My niece's expressed wish is to have a table front looking as if it was faced by a single board. The original model for this project has two drawers. I did not see this working here since, as their width would be greater than their depth, two drawers would likely rack. Consequently, I decided to build three drawers of equal width (I considered a narrow drawer in the centre, but decided this would be too busy).

In order that the figure of the drawer fronts would not be interrupted by the drawer dividers, the drawers are to have half-blind dovetailed side lips, such as these ...

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The drawers will each have a side lip of 6mm. This requires a 6mm wide side panel on each side of the case, and two 12mm wide drawer dividers. This will allow three drawers to run adjacent to one another, and the three fronts to be cut from a single board.

The drawer fronts will come from this board ...

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Below are the panels for fitting ...

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It occurred to me later (of course!) that the 6mm end panels could have been made to run with the grain direction of the case. Being the same Jarrah, this would have counted for any expansion/contraction, and there would not be any danger of movement being intrusive. Too late. It's glued.

So I did the next best thing, and planed 2mm off the upper and lower edges. This will permit enough movement, if any (it is a small and thin panel). There will not be any gaps seen as the front edges will later receive edging, which will be used as a depth stop.

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Frankly, the hardest part of this section of the project was accurate marking out of the two central drawer dividers. These need to be both perfectly parallel, and also aligned vertically (the lower panel with the upper panel).

There is a second area that needed to checked, which is important for drawers to work well, and this that the lower panel is flat - that is, does not have any hills. I learned my lesson the hard way about this. All good.

The way I go about marking the dados for the dividers is to make templates for their position. These are used on both the lower panel, as below, and then the upper panel ...

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The process is self-explanatory ...

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The dados are knifed deeply ...

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Chisel walls cut ...

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.. and then the waste is removed with a router plane ...

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The dados are just 2mm deep. That is deep enough to prevent any movement. This process is quick and relaxing (compared to setting up and using a power router).

Once done, the process is repeated on the upper panel ...

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All ready for a dry fit. The rear of the case ...

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... and the front ...

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Happily, all is square ...

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Tomorrow I shall glue it up.

Regards from Perth

Derek
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By Derek Cohen (Perth, Oz)
#1334091
We ended the last session with the drawer dividers installed ...

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Everything was nice and square, but the more I thought about what I had done, the unhappier I became. Such an elementary oversight. I cannot believe I did it, and also that no one pulled me up for it. What was it? Two items:

The first was that the grain for the drawer dividers runs the wrong way. Although the boards are as close to quarter grain as possible, which adds to stability, they will expand vertically. That could cause them to buckle, and then the drawers will not run nicely.

The second is that I could have built in a way to close up the drawer dividers against the back of the (to-be-built) side lipped drawer fronts ... this is to be used as a drawer stop ... at this stage it would be necessary to add a filler. Not good.

So I re-did the drawer dividers. Here is the rear of the case. The drawers are left long on purpose ...

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Provision is made for the dividers to be adjustable in length (to close up with the back of the drawer front). They are given rebates to slide further forward ... it will be necessary that they move around 15mm forward (to within 5-6mm of the opening).

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The rebate is 2mm deep (the depth of the dados), and largely created with a cutting gauge. The blade slices away end grain, and the resulting splitting away makes it easy to chop the remainder.

Here are the dividers, further forward than before, and capable of moving a little more still ...

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The plan was to glue up the case. However, before this is done, it is wise to fit the drawer fronts across the width (the height will be done at a later date).

This is the board for the three drawers.

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Removing one end, the board is set on the case ...

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It is now apparent that the front of the bevel, where it meets the drawers, is not straight. It is possible to see a small amount of flat ...

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This is especially noticeable in this corner ..

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This is fairly easy to remedy ... mark with a pencil, and then plane away the pencil marks ...

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Perfect now ...

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The other end needs no more than a smidgeon removed ..

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The upper side is now treated the same way. Interestingly, this needs no work at all.

Time to saw the drawer fronts to size.

First step is to mark the middle point of each divider (since the lips will share the divider). The mark can be seen in the rebate ...

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The drawer board across the front ...

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Transfer the mark, and then saw the drawer front ...

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This process is repeated. Here are the three sequential drawer fronts. You can just make out the breaks ...

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I am happy with this.

And so, finally, the case is glued up (Titebond Liquid Hide Glue - reversibility and long open time). Looking like a trussed up fowl ....

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Regards from Perth

Derek
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By AndyT
#1334098
Phew, that was a good spot about the grain direction! I can see how it happened, you made them to match those horizontally aligned pieces at the ends, but that would have bugged you I'm sure if you'd carried on. I'm slightly surprised you didn't remove and re-do the end pieces at the same time, but that really is too late so I shall keep quiet.

And presumably you trimmed the backs of the dividers before they were glued in place?

Nice adjustments to the mitres as well - did you choose that plane because the extra length before the iron makes it easier to locate on the bevel?