Easy project for dovetail practice

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I recently tried it too although the first place I read about it was in a FWW article (possibly by Mike Pekovich). Agree that it works well - I used it on the dovetails of my daughter’s toy chest in the projects section and it definitely helped.

Just for the record: I do not know much about Jordan Petersen, but I do know that Mike Pekovich published his article in FWW magazine about 3 or 4 years after I wrote about it on forums and on my website. I wrote to him about this but he blustered and stated that he had written about it on his website before this. I looked and could not find any mention.

This should not detract from the value of the technique.

There are three important areas to come up with decent dovetails ...

The first is that you use straight and square boards, as Custard noted.

The second is that, if cutting pins first (as I do), the saw cuts across the top edge are absolutely square. If these are off, everything after this will be off.

The third element is the accuracy in tranferring dimensions from one board to another. Transfering tails to pins is easier for me using blue tape since a sharp knife requires one stroke, and then sawing is easier since the lines stand out in sharp relief.

I'd add a fourth, but this is more of a suggestion to improve skills quicker, and this is to saw as close to the line as possible. Do not deliberately leave waste to pare away with a chisel (as some authors in magazines suggest you do). Sawing to the line will reduce the errors you make. Trying to pare later is a lot harder to ensure that you are both square and at the complimentary angle.

Dovetailing is really just marking and sawing.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[memzey]

I recently tried it too although the first place I read about it was in a FWW article (possibly by Mike Pekovich). Agree that it works well - I used it on the dovetails of my daughter’s toy chest in the projects section and it definitely helped.

Just for the record: I do not know much about Jordan Petersen, but I do know that Mike Pekovich published his article in FWW magazine about 3 or 4 years after I wrote about it on forums and on my website. I wrote to him about this but he blustered and stated that he had written about it on his website before this. I looked and could not find any mention.

This should not detract from the value of the technique.

There are three important areas to come up with decent dovetails ...

The first is that you use straight and square boards, as Custard noted.

The second is that, if cutting pins first (as I do), the saw cuts across the top edge are absolutely square. If these are off, everything after this will be off.

The third element is the accuracy in tranferring dimensions from one board to another. Transfering tails to pins is easier for me using blue tape since a sharp knife requires one stroke, and then sawing is easier since the lines stand out in sharp relief.

I'd add a fourth, but this is more of a suggestion to improve skills quicker, and this is to saw as close to the line as possible. Do not deliberately leave waste to pare away with a chisel (as some authors in magazines suggest you do). Sawing to the line will reduce the errors you make. Trying to pare later is a lot harder to ensure that you are both square and at the complimentary angle.

Dovetailing is really just marking and sawing.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi Derek,

Also just for the record;I wasn’t seeking to attribute originality to either party, just stating honestly where I’d come across it first.

I do fully agree with your other points regarding important aspects to get right, in particular getting the stock true (which Custard made earlier in this thread) and making your initial cuts on the tail board dead square (which some oaf called memzey also made earlier).

To be honest I think that there is very little, if anything, that people write about woodworking today that is truly original and has not been done or explained before. We have been altering wood to fulfill our purposes since before we were Homo sapiens. That’s a long time. I dare say it’s pretty much all been done before.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I dare say it’s pretty much all been done before.

Hi memzey

I totally agree. My comment was to set the record straight - I believe that one must always credit who came before, and I always try to do. What got up my nose was that Pekovich was adamant he was the first one to use this method, and his arrogant manner when doing so. Enough said. Let's move on. I will be posting something on dovetailing upside down in my next part of the Apothecary Chest.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[memzey]

I dare say it’s pretty much all been done before.

Hi memzey

I totally agree. My comment was to set the record straight - I believe that one must always credit who came before, and I always try to do. What got up my nose was that Pekovich was adamant he was the first one to use this method, and his arrogant manner when doing so. Enough said. Let's move on. I will be posting something on dovetailing upside down in my next part of the Apothecary Chest.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Agreed on all that. Regarding the bit in bold; as you’re antipodean does that mean “the right way up” for those of us in the northern hemisphere?

 

[Jacob]

Fascinating all these alternative ways of doing it! Each one more difficult than the last!
I don't suppose anybody is interested but DT'ing used to be much easier.
Easiest of all being the so called "London" pattern single kerf as used for light stuff (it's least strong obviously, unless you do a lot of them)
The pin holes first, spaced and cut freehand, no guides or gadgets required at all. Spaced with dividers if added precision wanted. The advantage of pin holes first is that it's unskilled and easy. No great need for precision except keeping the saw square on, and no lines to follow - except you must cut up to and just a gnats over the well cut shoulder line.
Precision begins with copying the pins from the pinholes.
If you struggle to do pins first you lumber yourself with two skilled operations rather than just one.

 

[ED65]

In case it's of help to Silly_Billy or anyone else here are Frank Klausz's tips for freehand dovetailing, pins first: (from Popular Woodworking Magazine | February 19, 2008

Not posted to stir up the argument about whether you should do pins or tails first, to me it's clear that really comes down to which you prefer, nothing more. If you haven't set up your tent in one camp or the other watch video of Klausz cutting dovetails (check YouTube) he's about as smooth and efficient as anyone could ask for, and faster than anyone else I've seen (using either method) bar one, which is a pretty good advertisement for this method.


Mod Edit:- to clear up copyright doubts.

 

[Jacob]

That's the (a) way to do it!
I came to the conclusions about DTs freehand, ganging two sides at a time, over-cutting the shoulder line, after looking at a lot of old furniture. Very little of it was as precisely set up as the obsessive over-cautious modern practice requires.
I came to the conclusion about angles by measuring. They commonly range from 45º to vertical but tend towards 20º or less - 1/3 approx, or less, approaching 1/6 or 1/8 (who makes up these daft little rules?).
I came to the conclusion about pin holes first because it's easier/faster to set them out and saw as two pieces together in the vice . AND if you look at old furniture, especially if you get to take it apart, you can SEE that two sides were usually cut together for one drawer, but never more. Each drawer will be slightly different.
I came up with another notion of my own: that the first cuts for each pin hole would be a 90º vertical cut on the mark. Then the angled cuts would be made from this kerf (for single kerf DTs) or offset either side of this kerf, judged by eye. The first vertical cut is very quick to do and makes chopping out the waste just a little easier. In fact for a wide pin hole or space between pins you could do several, though having re-read Krauszs notes - that flat spot idea is a good one. Maybe do both.

 

[custard]

here are Frank Klausz's tips for freehand dovetailing

Isn't this a breach of copyright? My understanding was it's okay to post a link, but not to post the article itself?


Mod Edit:- Post has been edited to cover copyright concerns.

 

[Jacob]

It's OK to quote stuff as long as credits are given etc etc but there is a fuzzy line. I doubt Krausz or the mag would have any objections to the above pages, which is the main issue. It promotes them both.

 

[custard]

You may be right Jacob, I'm not an IP lawyer.

My thinking ran along these lines, if a link is posted then eyeballs leave this website and move to the linked website, given that value accrues to eyeballs then, with a link, the owner or content originator derives a benefit, so they're happy.

But without a link eyeballs stay on this website, so this website gains a commercial benefit from someone else's content, while the actual originator of that content gains nothing. That doesn't sound right to me, but as I say I'm not an IP lawyer.

 

[ED65]

Mods, the whole of the December 1999 issue of the magazine is reproduced within Google books, and many more besides. (For those who haven't poked around in there, the full run of many magazines is on Google books, decades and decades, the entire of the 20th century in some cases!) And this article by Klausz is reproduced in altered format on the Popular Woodworking site, not behind a paywall.

So I think you'll agree it's clear the publishers don't have a problem with free access to the material.

But more broadly there is no copyright issue posting excerpts from magazines, or books, or other websites anyway. This is covered in the US copyright statutes, under the "Fair Use" exceptions (US code Sec. 107 - Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use). Read the original wording here. As you see criticism, comment, teaching, scholarship and research are all valid exceptions.

 

[custard]

But more broadly there is no copyright issue posting excerpts from magazines, or books, or other websites anyway. This is covered in the US copyright statutes, under the "Fair Use" exceptions (US code Sec. 107 - Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use). Read the original wording here. As you see criticism, comment, teaching, scholarship and research are all valid exceptions.

Are you an IP lawyer?

 

[Jacob]

You don't have to be a lawyer it's not that difficult.
In any case they'd soon let you know if you were breaching copyright - you are not going to end up in the old Bailey without some forewarning!