Chisel hammer

[nicguthrie]

I remember watching David C's video on chisel technique for precision and him mentioning something about preferring the metal hammer because the striking tone changed in different circumstances, giving a little bit of audible feedback about the depth of the cut and something else about it (it's been two years since I saw it, and I only just found out that it was David that featured in the video - it's been removed from YouTube where I saw it)

Could anyone clarify a little? I've thought for a long time about getting one of the Japanese Genno hammers from Rutlands or Dictum, but I'm not sure about justifying the cost over the rather effective and pleasant to use plastic faced Thor brand hammer that I use at the moment.

Absolutely excellent video, and a sore loss from my woodworking playlist on YouTube. David, if you see this, thanks for the excellent instruction, and is there anywhere else I can legally still see it, or has it shifted to a pay-for-the-DVD only model now? For myself as a disabled and retired type with woodwork only as a hobby for when I'm well enough, I try to guard my penny stash as best I can, but if it's part of a set, I'd definitely consider saving up.

Thanks in advance

Nic.

 

[whiskywill]

I bought one of these for £3 in a local car boot/market. http://www.justoffbase.co.uk/DRAPER-EXP ... tAodOREA0w
It was one of four, all new, he had for sale and I didn't know until now how much I saved. :shock:

 

[David C]

Nic,

I'm afraid it was illegally posted on You Tube.

Delighted you found it useful. It is on sale from L-N or my website, and there are 5 others.

My advice would be to try any hammer, gently, but only if your chisel handles are suitable. i.e. Japanese or L-N & possibly Blue Spruce? The feel is very different from a wooden mallet or nylon faced hammer. Much more positive somehow.

Best wishes,
David

 

[Benchwayze]

I just can't bring myself to hit my chisels with a metal head. Maybe a hooped chisel, or those Japanese types, but then I don't have any of those. :mrgreen:

 

[nicguthrie]

I'm sorry to hear that the video was illegal, I'd thought initially, since it was linked to the sales site etc, that it had been sort of given away as a free sample to entice folks to buy the chisels or other instruction sets to go along with it. I guess I'd rather buy it directly from yourself than leave you to ask for your cut from the company in the US, so I will see if I can save up for a couple of your videos, in amongst saving up for a router, a thicknesser, a plane, etc etc etc... for a hobby, I didn't choose a cheap one!

My chisels are nothing special, they do have the same metal ring around the end that you see on Japanese chisels but it's probably a lot more lightweight than a "proper" japanese one.

This is the set I have - http://www.rutlands.co.uk/sp+woodwo...vel-edge-chisels-hornbeam-handles-mhg+1310306 I got them on some 50% off deal a year or two ago.

I've always fancied getting a couple of really nice L-N or Japanese laminated blade chisels for doing really fine work, but since it's not a money making excercise for me, I may just pootle along with the ones I have. They're sharp, lightweight and the right shape, so I've got nothing to complain about

Whiskywill - that's almost exactly the hammer I have! Mine's made by Thor, they're so similar that either Thorex makes the Draper one for them, or there's a copyright lawyer out there somewhere that is missing out on a paycheck!

Nic.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

A Japanese gennou - mine is also 375 gm - is best suited to hooped handles, such as Japanese bench types. I would not use the hard steel head on unhooped chisel handles as it will deform them quite rapidly. After many years of enjoying an inexpensive, basic gennou on Japanese bench chisels, I purchased a hand built Tenryuu gennou head and built a handle for it based on a traditional design ..

For wooden, unhooped handles I find the 18 oz. Veritas Cabinetmakers mallet to be excellent. I have since added a piece of hard horse butt leather to one end to further protect the wooden handles. This is hard leather that transmits force well.

For mortice chisels a heavier mallet is needed, especially for our local hard woods. I recently built a 38 oz. mallet, which has a lot of mass in a small head due to brass infills on each side.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[David C]

Derek,

The Hop Hornbeam used by Lie-Nielsen is more than tough enough to be used with a steel hammer. I have been using mine, for a number of years, with a Japanese hammer.

Thomas originally tested them with a 16 oz framing hammer!

Best wishes,

David

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Hi David

The LN chisel handles are excellent for their durability. That hop hornbeam, or ironwood as it is also known, is harder than any other chisel handle wood I have come across. They are the one exception to my rule of using wood-for-wood and steel-for-steel. I have wooden chisel handles in some very hard woods, such as West Australian She-oak. Even these do not stand up to a steel hammer. So my recommendation stands for all other chisels.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[David C]

Hi Derek,

Agreed ~#

David

 

[Jacob]

If you just want a hammer rather than a very expensive tooly tool there's a whole range of soft faced hammers with alternative screw-in inserts available such as these.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/thor-plastic-hammer

 

[heimlaga]

I would never use a metal headed hammer on my chisels. Even if almost all of my chisel handles are either "hammer proof" plastic or hooped. Usually I use a fairly large rubber mallet bit I recently bought a mallet with it's wooden head encased in cast iron. I suppose it might have some advantages over rubber mallets for heavy work but I haven't tested it yet.
I am fairly practical minded and work my chisels hard and consequently I have found that if I use a hammer I will have to spend too much time making chisel handles.

 

[Silly_Billy]

Why Brass?

I use a very reasonable, 375g, barrel shaped Japanese hammer from Dictum.

David Charlesworth

Has anyone tried something like this 4oz. Shinwa hammer?

Or a 21cm Daruma hammer, which might be the one that David C meant? Or is it too small?

 

[ED65]

Old thread Billy, but 375g is getting up towards a pound. 4oz is less than a third of that, only 113g.

FWIW I think the size and mass of the striking implement is partly up to the taste of the individual, but to a degree should be sized to the scale of the work being done.

Although obviously you can hit lightly with a heavy implement when required, and conversely strike harder using something lighter as needed, there are points where you get diminishing returns and smaller hitting implements are better suited to small-scale work and fine carving while for deep mortises especially in harder hardwoods a heavier hammer/mallet will generally serve better.

 

[Glynne]

I had a look at the Dictum / Fine-Tools site and they recommend 375g for striking chisels.
I've just weighed the wooden mallets I normally use and they come in at 410g and 280g.
The small brass hammer I was bought as present (Workshop Heaven) comes in at 300g but I find the very small handle a bit fiddly to hold.

 

[Jacob]

You need a wooden mallet not a hammer (unless you just like keeping up with current fashions :lol: )
What a mallet does is allow you to concentrate on the pointy end of the chisel whilst you hit the other end.
The wide face of the mallet ensures you won't miss and hit your hand by mistake. Also less damage to the chisel handle.
Even stone masons avoid normal hammers - they need the mass of metal but they also need the wide face - hence the "lump" hammer.
A hammer means keeping another eye on the handle end - OK for nails as the point is already located.
Round mallets favoured - square flat faced mallets are more for knocking framing and other woodwork about, leaving as little mark as possible. Will do for chisels too of course, except they end up hollow faced.

I had a look at the Dictum / Fine-Tools site and they recommend 375g for striking chisels.

Sounds like nonsense to me - you need everything from zero weight (hand pressure only) to as big as you can manage for big boggers. Don't take advice from people trying to sell you hammers!

 

[Silly_Billy]

Jacob, I’m a very fashionable kinda guy :mrgreen:

 

[Glynne]

Jacob, I’m a very fashionable kinda guy :mrgreen:

Me too!