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By Bodgers
#1207083
Slowly but surely I am getting towards building my first 'proper' bench. I'm definitely not entitled to my 'woodworker' card planing with the new ECE planes on my Black and Decker workmate.

I'm basically building the Hayward style bench.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/23/55/77/2355 ... enches.jpg

I had originally planned to build a leg vice using a scaffold screw and a linear bearing and shaft of the base guide.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/34/11/77/3411 ... de6715.jpg

But the original design in Hayward's "How to Make Woodworking Tools" book shows the classic quick release metal jawed woodworking vice favoured by Sir Paul.

I would really like the back jaw flush with the apron, which I suppose I could do.

But what is actually more affective? A self made leg, nicholson, twin screw etc. Or a off the shelf metal jawed vice?

What got me doubting was GS Haydon's blog where he mentioned his self made Nicholson vice was inferior to his production workshop's quick release vices. (What's happened to his YouTube videos?)

http://www.gshaydon.co.uk/blog/how-did-i-build-the-vice

There are also these types of QR vices that don't have metal jaws I'm leaning toward:

https://www.fine-tools.com/spindel.html#ziel300651
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By AndyT
#1207093
I think it's one of those things that really comes down to personal preference (which includes how long you want to spend building it and how much you are prepared to spend).

I can sort of date the start of my 'proper woodworking' rather than diy, to the time when I got hold of a Record 52½ quick release vice and installed it on my bench. It copes with just about everything I need to hold, unless it's something which belongs on the top of the bench, where the holdfasts take over.

One of its many good features is the depth of grip - enough to work on drawers and many boxes.

I put mine with the back jaw let in to the front of the bench, with some wood facing over the rear steel jaw. That's not what Paul Sellers does. I respect his work and his methods - which obviously work well for him - but am too set in my ways to want to copy the way he holds wood in his vice for almost everything, even with it sloping at an angle when he needs to saw the end straight.

I was lucky enough to find an old vice in good nick for a very reasonable price, which helps me feel good about my decision. The German vice kits look interesting but are much more than I paid.
By phil.p
#1207097
There's no reason to have any metal exposed on a Record. This is set down so the top can be lipped and back so the inside jaw is very near flush but replaceable.
DSCN2508.JPG
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By DTR
#1207100
I agree with Andy, it's a preference thing. I started with a Record vice, and later made my own leg vice just because I fancied one. The leg vice does have certain advantages, such as no guide bars to get in the way. That allows you to put long stuff right up next to the screw without causing the vice to rack (wrack?). Another advantage is that the whole chop (front jaw) can be easily unscrewed to leave the front of the bench unobstructed. That's handy if you need to work on the edge of something big like a door.

Conversely, a Record vice probably has its own advantages. Either way, I do recommend making the rear jaw flush with the apron. It makes some clamping operations a lot simpler.
By Cheshirechappie
#1207101
I think every vice design and arrangement has it's advantages and disadvantages, so there's no 'right' answer - we'd all use the same if there were! Just install one that appeals to you, and get used to enjoying it's strengths and working around it's weaknesses.

If you do go for a Record-type metal vice, I've found that the 7" I bought years ago has done all I could have asked of it; I haven't really missed the larger capacity of a 9" or 10 1/2". Mine has the metal dog on the front, which I've never used, but it is a QR version, which I do use - a lot!

(By the way - Graham's still about, but found that his video-making was rather interfering with his business and family responsibilities, so made the decision to scale back. A loss for us, but entirely understandable.)
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By AndyT
#1207113
Here's a pic of mine

Image

I like having the wooden linings quite long, as it means I can hold a vertical board, stood to one side of the vice screw and guide rods, with enough wood to grip it.

If that makes a racking problem, I have a pack of offcuts of plywood and thick card, bolted at one corner and free to swivel on the bolt. I can select enough of the pack to equal the thickness of the wood being held, and place it at the opposite side of the vice. I learned the idea from one of Alf's posts on here years ago. I'll post a picture if I can find one. Someone else showed the same thing recently but I can't think who it was.
By Jacob
#1207134
Record QR vice is absolutely essential and much more useful than any of the alternatives.
By all means fiddle about and make a quaint wooden leg vice but get a Record first, then you probably won't feel the need for anything else.
Cheshirechappie wrote:..... there's no 'right' answer - we'd all use the same if there were! ......
The right answer is Record QR 52 1/2 (various options). That is why almost everybody uses them.
By Bodgers
#1207143
Thanks for the responses and photos - much appreciated. I suppose what I was really driving at was, are the Record type metal vices functionally better? Which you've answered.

Jacob, your amusing response is the one I suspected, in that the self made leg/Nicholson etc type vices are done by the hipsters for purely aesthetic/'tradition for traction sake' reasons over actual practically.

I don't think almost everybody uses them btw - at least from the blogs and YouTube stuff I see. Lots of self build leg vices, twin screws, moxons, shoulder vices etc... typically Americans that have read the Chris Schwarz book maybe...

I won't lie to myself, aesthetics is a part of the decision, but I'm definitely not comprising on function.



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By Pete Maddex
#1207144
AndyT wrote:


If that makes a racking problem, I have a pack of offcuts of plywood and thick card, bolted at one corner and free to swivel on the bolt. I can select enough of the pack to equal the thickness of the wood being held, and place it at the opposite side of the vice. I learned the idea from one of Alf's posts on here years ago. I'll post a picture if I can find one. Someone else showed the same thing recently but I can't think who it was.


Was it me?

ImageTriming feathers by Pete Maddex, on Flickr

Pete
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By DTR
#1207156
Bodgers wrote:
Jacob, your amusing response is the one I suspected, in that the self made leg/Nicholson etc type vices are done by the hipsters for purely aesthetic/'tradition for traction sake' reasons over actual practically.



There's two ways to do anything; Jacob's way and the wrong way :lol:
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By nabs
#1207161
ha ha! hard to argue with him on this one though - the 52 1/2 is a classic design and as far as I'm concerned has never been bettered. There is a reason there are so many of them about still, and that is because they are very good which meant many were purchased and most survived ...
By Jacob
#1207172
Bodgers wrote:.......
I don't think almost everybody uses them btw - at least from the blogs and YouTube stuff I see. Lots of self build leg vices, twin screws, moxons, shoulder vices etc... typically Americans that have read the Chris Schwarz book maybe...
The trendy alternatives just get more attention. There isn't much to say or discuss about the Records
I won't lie to myself, aesthetics is a part of the decision, .....
You could paint it? Or cover it with
woodgrain Fablon ?
Last edited by Jacob on 09 Feb 2018, 15:29, edited 1 time in total.
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By Pete Maddex
#1207175
DTR wrote:
Bodgers wrote:
Jacob, your amusing response is the one I suspected, in that the self made leg/Nicholson etc type vices are done by the hipsters for purely aesthetic/'tradition for traction sake' reasons over actual practically.



There's two ways to do anything; Jacob's way and the wrong way :lol:


Here, that's my quote!

:wink:

Pete
By Bodgers
#1207191
Cheshirechappie wrote:I think every vice design and arrangement has it's advantages and disadvantages, so there's no 'right' answer - we'd all use the same if there were! Just install one that appeals to you, and get used to enjoying it's strengths and working around it's weaknesses.

If you do go for a Record-type metal vice, I've found that the 7" I bought years ago has done all I could have asked of it; I haven't really missed the larger capacity of a 9" or 10 1/2". Mine has the metal dog on the front, which I've never used, but it is a QR version, which I do use - a lot!

(By the way - Graham's still about, but found that his video-making was rather interfering with his business and family responsibilities, so made the decision to scale back. A loss for us, but entirely understandable.)
A real shame about the videos. I never got to see them. The articles that reference them are great...maybe if it's the comments he doesn't like dealing with, they could be republished with comments turned off? Or just delisted and referenced from he blog only?



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