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By RogerS
#1273162
sploo wrote:... The man is an utter imbecile, and a complete charlatan.


That is an insult to imbeciles.

So they next vote and reject the No Deal. So what if they vote for an extension ? What is going to change in that time ? SFA.

Well done, Brexiteers. You've got what you wanted. You now have control. So WTF are you proposing to do ? T***ts !
User avatar
By Noel
#1273182
Tomorrow the No Deal tariffs and quotas will be released by DExEU.
On the NI/Irl border various (and usually reliable) local news sources are saying that there will, (and anybody would find this hard to believe in normal times, but what is normal these days?) be in effect an Honesty Box border.... Totally voluntary declarations of goods, quotas and duties etc. Nobody about to check for smuggling, trafficking or whatever on traffic coming from South to North.
Lorry load of iffy livestock? Send it up North, just sail through the border.
And ditto for dodgy meat, people smugglers, the 100 million quid counterfeit paramilitary tobacco business and anything else that the local hoods fancy having a go at.
Apparently there'll be a registration system, if you want to register....................
I have a vision of a box on a post at every border crossing....hold on, that would be infrastructure...

Sincerely hope Off The Table No Deal goes through tomorrow.

Edit- now on the news sites (BBC):

The BBC understands the UK government does not intend to collect customs duties or have any other controls at the Irish border in the event of a no-deal Brexit.
Instead it will rely on self-reporting by businesses.
Details of how the UK will manage the border if there is no deal will be published on Wednesday.
Meanwhile the DUP will vote against a motion in Parliament that would rule out the UK leaving the EU with no deal.
It is also understood the government's border plan will suggest an app-based system to record cross border trading.
It is still not clear what the Irish government will do on its side of the border if Britain leaves the EU without a deal.

The government has consistently said it will do everything in its power to avoid a hardening of the border whatever the circumstances.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47544149
User avatar
By Noel
#1273183
RogerS wrote:
sploo wrote:... The man is an utter imbecile, and a complete charlatan.


That is an insult to imbeciles.

So they next vote and reject the No Deal. So what if they vote for an extension ? What is going to change in that time ? SFA.

Well done, Brexiteers. You've got what you wanted. You now have control. So WTF are you proposing to do ? T***ts !


You would be referring to a plan of some sort? Looking in the wrong place I suspect : )
User avatar
By Noel
#1273185
@damocrat

What should happen next:

• Quietly revoke Article 50
• Tell Brexiters we left with no deal
• Send them blue passport covers
• Give them special long queues at airports/ports
• Charge them for roaming calls/data
• Give them food and medicine ration books
• Get on with life
By sploo
#1273215
Noel wrote:@damocrat

What should happen next:

• Quietly revoke Article 50
• Tell Brexiters we left with no deal
• Send them blue passport covers
• Give them special long queues at airports/ports
• Charge them for roaming calls/data
• Give them food and medicine ration books
• Get on with life

Tragically, that is the single most coherent and workable Brexit plan I've seen in ages.
By worn thumbs
#1273225
An interesting observation I came across questioned how it is OK to repeat the vote on the exit deal in Parliament and yet there is so much resistance to giving the public another vote on the topic.
By sploo
#1273226
worn thumbs wrote:An interesting observation I came across questioned how it is OK to repeat the vote on the exit deal in Parliament and yet there is so much resistance to giving the public another vote on the topic.

To be fair, the referendum didn't specify how to leave, so you could argue that it's acceptable for Parliament to go back and forth a bit trying to vote through a negotiated deal. Obviously the whole thing is actually just a huge mess, and Leave deliberately avoided specifying how to leave, as Hannan likely knew that no single route was palatable for all/most Brexiteers.
User avatar
By Sheffield Tony
#1273229
worn thumbs wrote:An interesting observation I came across questioned how it is OK to repeat the vote on the exit deal in Parliament and yet there is so much resistance to giving the public another vote on the topic.


I wondered about that.

But I also wonder what the question would be now ? It seems to me that if you ask the people, you need to be willing and able to enact whatever they vote for. This wasn't the case in the original referendum as is being demonstrated. Parliament won't get behind May's compromise deal (or possibly any deal), crashing out still leaves the Irish border problem and many others. Remaining will surely be problematic both at home and in relationship with the EU after this fiasco.

In rivo fimi sine remo sumus.

I read Farage is now suggesting the EU veto any request for an extension to article 50, in order to try and force us to crash out. A prime candidate for that special place in hell that Tusk was talking about.
By sploo
#1273237
Sheffield Tony wrote:But I also wonder what the question would be now ? It seems to me that if you ask the people, you need to be willing and able to enact whatever they vote for. This wasn't the case in the original referendum as is being demonstrated. Parliament won't get behind May's compromise deal (or possibly any deal), crashing out still leaves the Irish border problem and many others.

That is a good question, because you can't exactly just repeat the original question; given that we know that leaving with no coherent plan won't work.

Sheffield Tony wrote:Remaining will surely be problematic both at home and in relationship with the EU after this fiasco.

Indeed. If we just did the sensible thing and cancelled it, it will inevitably play to the "elites stealing Brexit" narrative of the con men, and likely generate more problems down the road.

Whichever way it goes I doubt we'll exactly be flavour of the month in the EU; unless it were possible to clear out the majority of the current dross in government, and install people that would actually like to work with the EU in a way that's positive for the UK.

Sheffield Tony wrote:I read Farage is now suggesting the EU veto any request for an extension to article 50, in order to try and force us to crash out. A prime candidate for that special place in hell that Tusk was talking about.

So... he's requesting foreign powers to take action that will harm his own nation?
By RobinBHM
#1273241
That is a good question, because you can't exactly just repeat the original question; given that we know that leaving with no coherent plan won't work.


Given that the only deal currently agreed with the EU is the May deal, a peoples vote could only be remain or that deal.....I think :D
I would vote remain -Mays deal is awful

bearing in mind that its only a WA which is a deal to get to the main deal......so it isnt actually the deal -a trade deal with the EU would be a worse deal than the WA, if thats possible.

one could easily argue the current deal we have is better than any other option.
By Gerry
#1273276
I think the vote would be remain, Mays deal or no deal.
This would then split the vote three ways and as the remain votes would probably have a similar count to the last referendum the leave vote would be split in two giving remain a large majority.

Gerry
By sploo
#1273287
Gerry wrote:I think the vote would be remain, Mays deal or no deal.
This would then split the vote three ways and as the remain votes would probably have a similar count to the last referendum the leave vote would be split in two giving remain a large majority.

Gerry

I was going to say that no deal should be on a new voting slip, in order to be "fair" (even though all good evidence points to it being suicidal stupidity). However, you make a good point (that May's deal and no deal may split the leave vote).

However, that really just highlights a bigger problem: leavers cannot agree on how to leave, because any method of leaving is likely to cross one or more red lines from the point of view of that individual.
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By Sheffield Tony
#1273295
I think this is the problem; the leave contingent is united by a negative notion - they know what they don't like - but as we tell young children so often, it's no good criticising someone else's plan unless you have a better idea to offer instead.

I see worn thumbs question about why repeating a vote in the commons is OK when repeating a referendum isn't has just been asked in the house by Hilary Benn.
By sploo
#1273327
Thoughts from Liam Fox this evening:

"Mr Fox says that during the debate the UK has been portrayed as "inept and intimidated".

He says he does not recognise the picture that has been painted."

I think that's called Dunning-Kruger; whereby the inept lack the skills to recognise their own incompetence. A perfect summary of Mr Faux.