Woodrat!

[Aragorn]

It's a strange comparison anyway isn't it? The Leigh D4 or the Rat?
The Leigh is a dedicated dovetail jig that's top of the class. The Rat is a multi purpose device - but so is a table saw! You can cut dovetails on all three. Why the comparisons!? The Leigh is just a superb jig in every way.
Neil - you've made an excellent choice.

 

[Adam]

It's a strange comparison anyway isn't it? The Leigh D4 or the Rat?.

In what way? The rat 8) produces superb dovetails, finger joints, sliding dovetails butt dovetails, haunch joints, stopped housings, wooden hinges, blind dovetails M&T and we haven't even got into decroative versions of the above! I think the comparisons are very valid.

The Leigh is a dedicated dovetail jig that's top of the class.

"dedicated" is a dangerous word in my workshop!, what happens if you find a different joint you want to do? Or use with really thick wood? I have to admit to using my woodrat to cut some joints in 3x2 inch recently Not really precision WW - but it saved me plenty of time . On that specific occasion, I was pleased the woodrat the ability to do something unusual - for lots of people, they have the space and money to buy something dedicated to every task. In an ideal world, perhaps I wouldn't have a woodrat - but a variety of other machines - dovetailer, RAS with dado-blade, spindle moutlder, dedicated morticer and a dedicated tenoner - but I seen a tenoner and it was about £3k :shock:. So for some people a Leigh would be "top of the class" - but for someone like me working in a limited size workshop - it could never be "top-of-the-class" as it only does a couple of joints. I need something with more flexibility.

The Rat is a multi purpose device - but so is a table saw! You can cut dovetails on all three.

You just said it's a "strange comparison" above - and now you're saying you can cut dovetails on all three? So it's clearly not a strange comparison. :wink: The woodrat is designed to cut dovetails - at least it's the #1 reason I bought it. I knew I would utilise it's other functionality, but I didn't want to buy something that couldn't produce "perfect" dovetails! I bought the table saw to cross cut, and rip wood. The supports, jigs and additional danger mean I would never consider using a table saw to make dovetails.

Why the comparisons!? The Leigh is just a superb jig in every way..

Aragorn, I don't think anyone is questioning the quality, or ability of the Leigh to make superb joints. I just think we are rightly pointing out the quality and ability of the Woodrat to make superb joints. They are after all, in direct competition with each other - so I think comparisons are valid.

Neil - you've made an excellent choice.

I agree, anything that assists in WW, and helps you along with projects is a bonus.

I think this turned into a bit of a rant - it wasn't really how I meant it to be.

Adam

 

[Charley]

Well done Neil, I got the Leigh last year - you won't be disappointed it's a great jig.

 

[Aragorn]

Hi Adam
That was a bit of a rant !
Space constraints in a workshop are an important issue that I wasn't considering in my last post. When space is short, of course a more versatile tool/jig makes it a better choice over dedicated tools/jigs. I have the luxury of a large workshop, so for me it's not so much space (there's never enough) but setup time and change-over time.
Besides, Neil obviously has space to use and store the Leigh, as well as his other machines for general woodworking - I was just trying to say it is a good choice of jig 8)

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Adam/Aragorn

The Leigh is a dedicated dovetail jig that's top of the class. The Rat is a multi purpose device.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. The Leigh is seen (except by Frank) as the undisputed world leader in dovetail jigs.

The Rat is perceived by the world as a "quirky" multi-purpose jig/device/system.

The Rat as, I think we all accept, is good at making lots of joints but a specific jig will always beat it hands down in terms of setup and speed.

Sorry, but this has come across as knocking the Rat, I wasn't trying to do that as I firmly believe it has a place in the workshop.

Cheers
Neil

 

[Adam]

Shall we get the thread locked down now? I think it's pretty close to a natural break?

We need a new thread, with a link to the image gallery of your first efforts neil?

Adam

 

[Adam]

That sounds like a good idea. I think I can do it on the Leigh - there is enough space behind the workpiece to drop the router in. I'll give it a go next time I'm dovetailing.
Thanks!

One last post eh? Did that work for you Aragorn?

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Adam

Shall we get the thread locked down now? I think it's pretty close to a natural break?

Not like you to admit defeat so soon. :wink: :wink:

Cheers
Neil

 

[Adam]

Never, death to Leigh jigs. Long live the 'Rat. Besides, leave #em together in the workshop and the 'rat will eat it. :shock: :? :lol: :lol: :twisted:

Adam

 

[frank]

well the big rat has got to find food for the little rat ,so he (hammer) em :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


frank

 

[Anonymous]

I am a little confused by these posts and the strength of feeling. Who cares whether the wood Rat is better than/as good as the Leigh (it isn't for Dovetails but is for other joints).
You pays your money and takes your choice. Everyone seems happy with their choice.

I got the Leigh because it is great for dovetails. I cut all the other joints the rat can manage in various ways and don't need nor want a jig to do cut them - that's my choice. I saw a Rat being used and it looked too complicated to me, so the Leigh won it easily.

My two penny worth.

Now please stop arguing about Wood Rats and give me some advice about my Willow logs and bench vice :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

My last three questions lie unanswered (and I do shower every day so it's not that)

 

[frank]

spoilsport i will tell me mammy willow logs mmmmmmmmmmm cricket bats vices well if it keeps you happy :shock:

 

[SquareCircle]

Read the posts, watched the video. Still think I'm going to get a D4 and maybe one of those Trend M&T jigs. It seems like getting good consistent results out of a Woodrat takes much more time, skill and patience. Anyone care to comment on the learning curve with the D4 :?:

 

[Chris Knight]

Squarecircle,

I have a Leigh D4 , a Woodrat and an Incra (on my router table). I use them all and the first thing to say is that they all have strengths and weaknesses.

The Leigh is great for things like cabinets (blanket chest and linen press dimensions etc) which the other two have trouble handling, especially when the pieces to be jointed are long.

The Woodrat can't be beat for dovetailing eg drawers. I can make two drawers in the time it takes to set up the Leigh.

With a tall fence (I use a bit of melamined chipboard) the Incra is King of the tenon making brigade. Its precise positioning allows one to adjust tenons by literally 1/1000 inch at a time. Nothing else comes close whatever they say! Don't bother with it for dovetails, the rat is much better.

There is lots more one could say but this is the guts of my experience with these things

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Square Circle

Have a look at this for the Leigh.

http://www.woodshopdemos.com/dts-ld4-1.htm

Cheers
Neil

 

[Aragorn]

Anyone care to comment on the learning curve with the D4 :?:

Hi
The Leigh learning curve is pretty, well gentle I suppose! It takes a little time initially to set it up and understand using it. The instructions are superb. Once you've done a few through dovetails and a few half-blind it's quick and easy to pick it up again.
I was attracted to the Trend MT jig too. I use a morticer and table saw currently and I'm fed up with all the changes in setup. My MT jig is in the post! I'll let you know how I get on with it if you like.
Aragorn

 

[Adam]

Aragorn,

Theres a post on ukwoodworking on MSN groups, about using the Trend, M/T - but you only need to read the first couple of bits, 'cos we dragged it OT (sorry! :? ) Adam

http://groups.msn.com/ukwoodworking/gen ... 6476590434

 

[Aragorn]

Thanks Adam!
I've been warned.
Blimey, how many woodwork forums are you lot in :!: When do you get the time for making sawdust :?: :wink:

 

[Adam]

Well

UKW (THis site, UK_Workshop)

UKWW (Thast MSN group UK_Woodworking http://groups.msn.com/ukwoodworking/general.msnw)

SDA (SawDustAlley http://www.sawdustalley.co.uk/

Thats the main three I visit. I also use

the forum on

www.woodrat.com, although mostly just read stuff, rather than contribibute....

I presume there must be a dedicated Leigh forum somwhere, with hints, tips etc?

Adam

 

[Adam]

When do you get the time for making sawdust :?: :wink:

Well, you're up to 30 posts in under 30 days - so it looks like your sawdust making must be reducing!!!

Adam