stile meets rail

[cerdeira]

Hi all.

I've always found the process of cuting mitres in moulded stile and rail joints very time consuming. As part of a cabinet I'm currently making I thought of documenting my process. Nothing really new here, it's basically an hand tool task. If I'me lucky I can finish one in about 15 minutes, but most of the time it takes much more: Ive got to do several iterations before all fits in nicely. And I'm talking about moulding on just the front side and offset shoulders so I can avoid cutting mitres on the back. This way only 8 surfaces must meet (2 shoulders and 2 mitres on the stile and on the rail).
It's a helluva time for just an humble joint.
How would you do this in production?
I'd appreciate inputs as to speeding up this process: no cheating like applying beads afterwards or scribing joints (you cannot scribe joints whose moulds aren't strictly decreasing curves).

Now here's my process:

First the tenon is assembled the normal way, as if there was no moulding at all



A square is used to mark on the stile the locations where the mouldings will intersect.



here's the result:



then I chop the waste in the stile with a chisel. the bead groove will help in registering the chisel for paring



A 45 deg template is used to cut the mitres. I make several cuts removing little material in each pass.This avoids tearing out the unsupported portion of the bead right above the groove.



I finish the cut with a chisel plane:



the finished stile:



using the same process for the tenon:



the finished tenon:



didn't get a good fit for the first time and had to remove a bit from the back shoulder.



The end result: front:



and back:




Thanks for looking.

[Karl]

Nice work - very clean joint.

[Chems]

That looks great. What you making? I want a WIP it looks lovely!

[OPJ]

Superb.

Never thought of using a shoulder or chisel plane before (I've always used a bevel-edged chisel...). Thanks for the tip.
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[woodsworth]

That's some skills there!!!! nice fit. And thanks for the detailed pictures and your procedure of making this joint.
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[mr grimsdale]

Looks fairly perfect!
I would have marked up a bit* more - pencil the 45º angles across the face of the rail as a sight line. Then much as you have done except I'd be offering up and trimming to fit a bit more. One cheap trick is to get the faces of the bevels close and then to drop a saw cut between them, which will bring them into alignment (if you do it right!). I first saw this being done between a corner fence post and a brace, with a chain saw.

*PS I'd mark up a lot more - the width of the muntin and the the beads, across the rail, as well as the bevels. Then you can see where you are going wrong, where lines don't meet, where to trim etc.
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[joiner_sim]

Hi there,
Nice joint there.

To answer your question on how it would be done in production (production being in a bespoke joinery shop), well...

With what you have got there, the mortice bit would be done exactly the same way as you have done so. The tennon bit though, would be done on the chop saw. Setup to 45degree angle and set the depth to the tennon, bring the piece away from the fence by packing it out.

If the mortice part was the moulding and then a rebate on the other side, you would use the chop saw once again, this time tilting the saw to 45 degrees and setting the depth to the groove point. I suppose you could trench out the middle bit, but I always tend to chop it out by hand, less room for error. Even with the chop saw set to 45degrees though, I have found it nessecary sometimes to trim the shoulder to get a better fit, does save a bit of time though.
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[Geno]

This might be one "production" way

Great WIP post by Brad Naylor from a while back.

http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=31253&highlight=


Edited - Ok maybe not exactly what you were looking for - Sorry, misread your first bit and saw the bead.
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[JonnyD]

Nice looking joint. In production I dont think anyone would be mucking around with chopsaws and fitting by hand. Its more likely a system like this would be used http://www.hoffmann-usa.com/htm/beaded_face_frames/morso_nleh.htm . I find the way of doing it linked above adequate for my needs but obviously the tenon is replaced by a domino.

cheers

Jon
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[Chris Knight]

That is a very nice job and great pics - thank you.
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Chris

[Henning]

That is beautifully done!

The Kreg precision beaded face frame system is one way to do it in "production" (Very small scale, though) but only accepts a few sizes i think. Link: http://www.kregtool.com/products/prs/product.php?PRODUCT_ID=116
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[woodbloke]

Nice, crisp work here...well done - Rob
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