Not registered?? Click HERE to join our community
Straightening Bent Handsaw Blades

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    UKworkshop.co.uk Forum Index -> Hand Tools
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Bob Smalser
Forum Newbie


Joined: 04 Jul 2007
Posts: 41
Location: Seabeck, Washington USA, on Hood Canal

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:55 am Post subject: Straightening Bent Handsaw Blades Reply with quote



The best Western and Japanese handsaws are quite thin yet in competent hands won’t kink in a cut, and the spring steel they are made from is tempered to allow sharpening with files. They are usually taper ground in two dimensions, so the blade’s cutting edge is thicker than the back, and both the back and the cutting edge taper from the saw’s heel to the saw’s toe. The thinner the cutting edge, the greater the taper, and the higher the polish, the higher the saw’s quality, as taper results in less set required for the teeth, aided by the steel’s polish that inhibits binding in the cut. All these features allow for a narrower kerf requiring less sawing effort.

There are two fundamental choices in manufacturing a thin saw that won’t kink. The least expensive choice is to make the saw stiff by using hard steel and disposable blades, because such saws can’t be economically resharpened. The second choice is to temper the saw so that it can be filed, and to stiffen it by tensioning the blade using hammer and anvil.

When a thin blade is struck on an anvil by a convex-faced round hammer, a dimple is created; often so small it can’t be seen by the eye. Steel from the area around the dimple is pulled inwards toward the point of impact, making the steel in the circular area radiating from the dimple stiffer, or “tensioned” on its surface. Hundreds of such hammer blows applied in certain patterns equally to both sides of a handsaw blade can make it stiffer, can true a warped circular sawblade, or can dish a large bandsaw blade to conform to its wheels while at the same time tensioning the cutting edge. Truing sawblades are not low-order skills, and the major saw factories and filing shacks of logging camps and commercial sawmills was where you found them. Today it’s largely done on computerized machines, except for hand saws. Here you either find an old, retired saw doctor who worked for a big mill, a Japanese saw maker still tensioning by hand, or are on your own because there are few references. I’m not going to make a saw doctor out of you today. But I can get you started with some basics to practice with on old sawblades.



This old saw has a 3/8” kink in the area marked in chalk, and before I do anything else to rehabilitate the saw, I’ll remove this kink and true the cutting edge.



The first step is to remove the handle and bend the blade using your hands in as complete a circle as possible….in both directions. This relieves any recent stress put in the saw, and sometimes makes the existing kink worse or reveals additional problems like bow or twist.



The tools I’ll use to remove the kink are a steel anvil and two hammers, both heavy and light, both with slightly convex faces. I’ll mark the areas to be struck with chalk and using and oily rag, keep all steel surfaces clean and oiled to prevent marking the blade.



Removing a kink or bow requires stretching the steel surface on the concave side of the kink, and compressing the surface on the convex side. Before doing either, the saw’s tension at the cutting edge needs to removed or my attempt may make the kink worse. I accomplish this on the concave side by striking along a line running an inch or slightly less upwards from the tooth gullets. Each “X” represents two light hammer hits. I made identical chalk marks on the opposite side of the saw, but I don’t attempt to strike them yet.



On the identical marks on the convex side of the kink, I’ll accomplish two tasks simultaneously using light hits with the heavy hammer. The heavier hammer strikes will both remove the tension from this side of the saw and straighten out the kink by reversing the conditions that caused it, compressing the near side and stretching the far side of the blade.



I sight down the cutting edge to insure I removed the kink and repeat the previous steps if necessary. Once the kink is removed, I tension the cutting edge using identical light hammer strikes on both sides of the saw in turn, around ¼” to 3/8” above the gullets, insuring I don’t strike the gullets or teeth.



When tensioning is complete, the saw should flex in either direction as I did at the beginning, and return to dead straight.

Continued....


Last edited by Bob Smalser on Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bob Smalser
Forum Newbie


Joined: 04 Jul 2007
Posts: 41
Location: Seabeck, Washington USA, on Hood Canal

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:56 am Post subject: Reply with quote



Only after the blade is straight and tensioned do I continue with rehabilitation. This saw was habitually filed without jointing, and instead of straight or crown-breasted, the cutting edge resembles the hooked nose of the Wicked Witch of the West. Accordingly, I must stamp in new teeth. And guess what? 7 new teeth per inch on a 26” cutting edge require 182 strikes of the stamping dies, and a major retoothing usually bows the blade. So as soon as the blade comes out of the carrier, I again bend it both ways and strike 182 blows on the convex side just above the gullets with the light hammer. Wink
_________________
Bob
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Harbo
Cabinetmaker


Joined: 13 Nov 2006
Posts: 1815
Location: Hampshire

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:10 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Bob for your great detailed instructions and photos.
This is one for saving where I can find it for possible future use?
Wish I had a Foley!! Smile

Rod
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bob Smalser
Forum Newbie


Joined: 04 Jul 2007
Posts: 41
Location: Seabeck, Washington USA, on Hood Canal

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:31 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Harbo wrote:

This is one for saving where I can find it for possible future use?


It will eventually be in my articles section over at Ellis Wallentine's Wood Central website. Otherwise it will be in the Building and Repair FAQ at Woodenboat magazine's boatbuilder's forum.

As to the Foley retoother, I only use it as a last resort, as it's well-worn and provides the occasional unpleasant surprise. But I'll never own a Foley filing machine, as I always hand file the saws I use principally in the wetter, airdried boat wood.

A good filer can change the crown of the cutting edge, make the teeth taller and the gullets deeper to clear damp sawdust better, and even change the fleam or cutting edge bevel at the heel to make the saw start easier. These are features than can only be done by hand.

Filing with a 60-degree triangular file used at a 22 to 45-degree slope from vertical instead of straight across like the filing machines do produces taller teeth with longer cutting edges along with deeper gullets to better clear sawdust.

A crown-breasted cutting edge:



12-pt crosscut sloped gullets with no set, for hardwoods:



8-pt crosscut sloped gullets with light set, for softwoods:



5-pt rip sloped gullets with full set complete with raindrop, which is why I often phosphate blue the blades:


_________________
Bob
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Paul Chapman
Master Cabinetmaker


Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 6543
Location: Bookham, Surrey

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:37 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting, Bob. Thanks for posting that Wink

Cheers Wink

Paul
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
dunbarhamlin
Furniture Maker


Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 639
Location: Warwickshire

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:33 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

More great info, thanks Bob.

Just getting into working with my saws, it is invaluable to get input beyond Grimshaw. Reading from a single source inevitably leads to key aspects, tricks, quirks and foibles recieving an inappropriate weighting or being missed entirely.
So I am delighted to count myself one of the swine snuffling up your pearls of wisdom Smile

Cheers
Steve
_________________
Make your wood sing!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
JesseM
Furniture Maker


Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 243
Location: Atlanta, Georgia

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:41 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for posting! I have a couple of saws with some bend in them and will have to give this a try.

Setting has been my biggest problem with sharpening. I usually end up putting too much on. I've seen some tutorials on it, but it hasn't really helped. In cases where the set looks good I usually don't mess with it. I noticed you used the term full set, light set. What does this mean exactly?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bob Smalser
Forum Newbie


Joined: 04 Jul 2007
Posts: 41
Location: Seabeck, Washington USA, on Hood Canal

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 1:20 am Post subject: Reply with quote

JesseM wrote:
Setting has been my biggest problem with sharpening. I usually end up putting too much on. I've seen some tutorials on it, but it hasn't really helped. In cases where the set looks good I usually don't mess with it. I noticed you used the term full set, light set. What does this mean exactly?


The amount of set required is only enough to prevent the saw from binding in the wood you are cutting, and depends largely on the amount of taper in your saw.

If all you cut is dry cabinet hardwoods and you have a well-tapered Spear and Jackson that measures around .035" to .031" or less at the cutting edge, then you don't need any set at all. The same saw cutting boat wood at 15% moisture content in turn, would require at least a light set, and a lower quality saw with less taper would require a full set.

Knock out all the set in your teeth using a wood mallet on a wood surface, file the saw, and try it in the wood you plan to cut with it. If it binds, add a tiny amount of set and try it again. Stop adding set the moment it no longer binds in the kerf.
_________________
Bob
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JesseM
Furniture Maker


Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 243
Location: Atlanta, Georgia

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:00 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Smalser wrote:
JesseM wrote:
Setting has been my biggest problem with sharpening. I usually end up putting too much on. I've seen some tutorials on it, but it hasn't really helped. In cases where the set looks good I usually don't mess with it. I noticed you used the term full set, light set. What does this mean exactly?


The amount of set required is only enough to prevent the saw from binding in the wood you are cutting, and depends largely on the amount of taper in your saw.

If all you cut is dry cabinet hardwoods and you have a well-tapered Spear and Jackson that measures around .035" to .031" or less at the cutting edge, then you don't need any set at all. The same saw cutting boat wood at 15% moisture content in turn, would require at least a light set, and a lower quality saw with less taper would require a full set.

Knock out all the set in your teeth using a wood mallet on a wood surface, file the saw, and try it in the wood you plan to cut with it. If it binds, add a tiny amount of set and try it again. Stop adding set the moment it no longer binds in the kerf.

Thanks. I'll try that. I think I have been setting it just cause it seemed like I needed to. It makes sense to try first then set. I had read somewhere that you shape, set then sharpen. If I did have to add set would I have to resharpen after setting?

Most of the wood I cut is dry hardwood. Occasionally some SYP or other softwood.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bob Smalser
Forum Newbie


Joined: 04 Jul 2007
Posts: 41
Location: Seabeck, Washington USA, on Hood Canal

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:35 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Jointing and filing takes out some set, often unevenly. It's better to file first, then set. But usually I go over the teeth lightly one more time with the file after setting, to insure I didn't hit a cutting edge with the setting tool.



I also like to work using a shop-made wooden vise so I don't have to move the saw around in the middle of a row and lose the feel of my angles. The sawn lines in the vise jaws are my typical fleam angle.
_________________
Bob
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bob Smalser
Forum Newbie


Joined: 04 Jul 2007
Posts: 41
Location: Seabeck, Washington USA, on Hood Canal

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:44 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Part II
Lump and Cup Removal





On saws that have been kinked repeatedly or severely, it’s common to achieve a straight cutting edge by hammering and tensioning as I described in the previous installment, but still not have a saw that will cut smoothly. This Disston #16’s cutting edge was hammered straight, but you can see a small bend remaining in the saw’s back and what appears to be a cup or lump remaining that will bind in the kerf during sawing and cause the saw to wander.



A short straightedge run down the blade allows chalking the lump’s outline on the concave side. Turn the saw over and transfer the marks to the convex side of the lump.



Any tension in the concavity is removed using a small, convex-faced hammer, hammering on the marks from the outside of the circle inwards. Each mark represents two light hammer strikes.



Flipping the blade to the convex side, the lump is hammered out using the large hammer in exactly the same sequence and locations as in the previous step.



The blade is checked again using the straightedge and while there are still lumps and hollows, they are smaller. Rub out the old chalk marks and use the straightedge to make new ones, then repeat the same marking and hammering sequence of using the light hammer on the concave side and the heavy hammer on the convex side. Stop when the straightedge makes full contact with the blade.



Then tension the saw as I did in the first installment using the small hammer. Strikes near the edges provide tension to the edges, strikes near the center flatten the saw. If strikes are not made equally in force, location and number on both sides of the saw, the saw will bow or cup, and this is the basic principle used to tension or stiffen the blade and hammer out defects.



Cupped toes can be difficult and often not worth the effort, so I’ll shorten the saw instead.



Sawblade steel grinds to the line easily on the coarse wheel with an occasional water dip to keep it cool.

Continued….
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bob Smalser
Forum Newbie


Joined: 04 Jul 2007
Posts: 41
Location: Seabeck, Washington USA, on Hood Canal

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:44 am Post subject: Reply with quote



And the grinding marks easily cleaned up by drawfiling.
_________________
Bob
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Philly
Master Cabinetmaker


Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Posts: 6816
Location: Dorset, England.

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:02 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob
Thanks for the info - great to see it done!
Cheers
Philly Very Happy
_________________
The PhillyBlog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    UKworkshop.co.uk Forum Index -> Hand Tools All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
UK, tools, machinery, woodworking, DIY, wood, drills, saws, power tools, second hand machinery, table saw


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
UKW Terms & Privacy

Follow UKWorkshop on Twitter