Tenoning with a Spindle Moulder

[Andrewbullie]

After owning a spindle moulder for a couple of years I've eventually got around to trying it out this afternoon. I thought I'd try making a couple of tenons for a window frame today and used a Euro cutter with flat profile blades installed. I used the carriage for the cut but found that the finish is not good on the back edge. The last part seems to be splintering and breaking out the timber which I imagine I could resolve by making manual cuts before but I'm seeking advice to whether or not I am doing the right thing.

The machine is a Kity 619ti and it was fitted with a Charnwood 40mm Euro cutter with new flat blades. I had the speed at 6800 rpm and ran the wood through at a depth of 1" (D) x 3/4" (H) on pine.

Have I got the speed right? Am I using the wrong cutter? Am I trying to take too much off in one pass?

Any guidance would be appreciated as this is the first thing I have done on the machine and I am completely new to spindle moulders.

Thanks

 

[adidat]

you need to make a zero clearance fence. basically a piece of 18mm ply or a piece of pine etc, that is attached to the machine fence. Then once you are happy the cutter is set in the right position, cut into the sacrificial piece of wood this will create the exact shape of the tennon that you are expecting to make. This should then give you a backing piece and eliminate all break out.

Maybe a bit hard to understand but this is how I would do it, please do you're own research to come out with the final outcome.

adidat

 

[Jacob]

Wrong machine. You need a tenoner.
But there are ways to press a spindle moulder into use for small tenons. Personally I never bothered and did them with bandsaw and TS.

 

[custard]

You're doing everything right apart from one thing, you need a back up board behind the workpiece.

Most people have a sled (there are specialist tenoning sleds, but it could be a piece of 15mm or 18mm MDF) with a piece of scrap backing up the workpiece that's perpendicular to the fence. The key thing is that both the workpiece and the back up board need to be really well secured to the sled (double cramp the workpiece and screw the backing board to the sled from below), the back up board in particular is prone to being pulled into the cutters and if that happens it goes off like a hand grenade with splinters shooting everywhere.

Using a double head set up I'll machine right to the line for super clean and accurate tenons, with a single head it's trickier and probably best to stay a mill shy of the shoulder line and clean up by hand.

Another spindle moulder option is to use a pair of, say 150mm, rip saw blades or narrow groovers separated by shims. This will give you an accurate and quick way of cutting the cheeks and you then cut the shoulders on a table saw or by hand. Break out is much reduced with this method but I normally still use a back up board and a sled.

Set up time needs to be factored into the equation, for just a few tenons it's rarely worth going the spindle moulder route (using the bandsaw, table saw, or by hand is generally quicker) but often with a project if there's one tenon then there are loads so it becomes viable.

Good luck!

 

[Phil Walker@Appleby]

Hi, custard is spot on, and I totally agree with trying to do a double tenon as opposed to a single side each time. Depending on the tenon depths and length I would personally want to use a two piece groover with shims in-between, the groover's have spur tips on them so would give a lot better finish on your timber, and definitely use a backing board.
As I said though it would all depend on the sizes you are looking to achieve.

 

[RobinBHM]

A euro cutter is not really designed for edge cutting. Thry dont slways even have relief groung on.

Ideally use 2 blocke with scribes, like an adjustable groover or 2 rebate blocks. Years ago I bought a felder adjustable 2 piece groover with fixed tct tips, not too expensive and worked fine, you just need to set with spacers for tenon thickbess.

 

[Andrewbullie]

Thanks all for the advice. Just one more thing, if I go down the double tenon route then there will clearly be more resistance on the cutter / motor. Is there a limit to the size of tooling I could run on this machine? It is very powerful and has a large motor but it's only single phase.

Cheers

 

[custard]

Hello Andrew, I wouldn't worry about it, especially if you're using softwood, you've got all the power you need for the job. Keep your cutters sharp and you'll be fine.

 

[deema]

I have both a tenoner and a spindle moulder. For simple low volume tenons either machine is fine. If the tenon isn't scribed I will use a rebate block to cut the tennon. I find that a single sided cut reduces the set up time massively. You simply cut one side flip it over and cut the other. The key is to have the tennon end register on the fence so that the shoulders are accurate, and by only cutting half the joint when you flip it over its guaranteed to be absolutely central.

With a backing board, always softwood, never anything man made, the glue in the man made board reduces the cutter life considerably, I cut straight to the shoulder. there will probably by a top hat or stubby spindle for your machine that allows the stuff go over the top of a block for deep tennons, the blocks used with this have a recess in the top.

For me it's far faster to both setup and cut than a table saw or band saw and more accurate. I don't get blow out.

I cut my tennons before I mould the stuff to ensure that I don't have to have a scribed backing board.

 

[heimlaga]

I agree with the others!

The picture shows my setup with backing board in place. Pine is great for backing boards but I would never ever use any manufactured sheet stuff for thar purpose.
I learned the hard way that the backing board must be screwed to the fence of the sled. If it is just cramped the cutterhead may pull it in..... fortunately I didn't bend the spindle then.

For large tennon cutters on big spindle moulders one would normally use a spindle top support to prewent the spindle from flexing.
The spindle on my combination machine is on the small side for that kind of work but once I get the Jonsered FM-C up and running I will start using the big cutters and make door rail tennons in one pass. I recently found a spindle top support that will fit the Jonsered. Now I only need to find a suitable tennon sled.