Faithfull Planes

[user22161]

Couldn't find a recent thread on these. Was looking for a low angle block plane and, as my 60+ year old Stanley no.4 is a bit worn, decided on the Faithfull block + no.4. Very disappointed in the quality and have sent them back for refund. The block was the worst, various faults - adjusting lever had to be right over to get the blade square due to bad casting/failure to machine on one side, mouth plate had tramlines down it and had to be wide open.

Problem is, which of the cheaper block planes are worth buying? It appears from some comments on forums, nothing below the Quangsheng is worth having.

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

I have a QS block plane and cannot fault it. I don't really know how an Lie Nielsen, Veritas or Clifton could be better (bear in mind I've never touched a clifton or veritas plane and only once used a LN). Certainly miles better than Faithful. I've never handled the QS no.4 but imagine it would be great. The cheapest outlet I've seen for QS is rutlands but personally I would spend the extra few quid to buy from Workshop Heaven knowing that if there were any issues they would be sorted without arguments/fuss
Paddy

 

[John15]

Hi Graham,

You may be better off buying a second-hand made in England block plane and a no.4 off Ebay.

John

 

[Cheshirechappie]

About this time last year I spent £17 (which included delivery) on a Faithfull number 3 smoothing plane. Out of the box, it barely worked, and certainly didn't work as a smoothing plane should. I'd be hard pressed to find any component that was of a good standard, except the rear handle which was nicely shaped and finished - certainly better than 1980s Record. The sole was concave in length (by 6 thou), the frog casting did not seat true to the sole casting because the flange on the frog adjusting screw held the back of the frog clear of the sole casting, all the screws were sloppy in their tapped holes, the front knob was loose (cured with an extra washer), the pin holding the depth adjuster yoke stuck out both sides, just where you like to rest your index finger, the blade was a bit better than cheese, but not much, the slot in the cap-iron for the adjuster yoke tab was offset to one side - and so on. Actually, to be fair, the screw 'lever' cap was quite nicely made.

Fettling did make a reasonable plane of it in the end, though it'll never rival a premium plane for performance and 'feel'. It has been said before that the budget planes should be regarded as a kit of parts from which a working plane can be assembled given a bit of work, and from my experience, I'd say that's about right. Was it value for money? Well - since I didn't really expect much, and didn't pay much, I suppose it was.

Would I now recommend a budget plane to a beginner without the experience to diagnose and rectify faults, or to someone time-poor who wants something that works without fiddling about? No, I wouldn't.

 

[Mr_P]

I've had my deluxe rider block plane for over a year and I wouldn't part with it.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/information- ... der-planes

Perfect from the box, heard some aren't and some find it too heavy, I'm a big chap and like the weight.

The only other modern plane I've used was a Lie-Nielsen No. 103 Block Plane*, couldn't sell it quick enough, far too small for my big hands.

* Edit oops it was 103

 

[Droogs]

+1 for the Axi rider LA block. Love using mine

 

[Bm101]

Bought a QS la and rebate plane from workshop heaven. Just in love with them after all the crappy tools Ive used in the past. Heard great some reviews of the new axminster rider stuff too. Maybe they found a second sweet spot in the market? If I had to buy again I'd definitely look at the rider planes. But I wouldn't part with my QS block planes now I have them. I keep them in the kitchen much to my Mrs bewilderment lol.

 

[rafezetter]

+1 for ebay - I have a lovely Stanley 220 block which after a bit of work on the sole is lovely to use and was about £25. If you want "out of the box" then I guess you'll have to pay more.

there's a few on there right now worth looking at

 

[user22161]

Thanks folks, food for thought. Having been bitten a couple of times with second hand gear, I would rather buy new so it can be rejected if not up to scratch. Never having used a block plane, I get more confused the more I look at different specs. but the Rider 60 1/2" LA would seem to fit the bill for end grain and light finishing and my pocket - it's been an expensive year with new TS, BS & PT.

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Veritas block planes now sell for around £120. I personally think that is "cheap" for the quality of tool which will last a lifetime and then some. You will have to undertake little if any fettling to achieve superb results.

If you are doing woodworking on a regular basis, professionally or even as a hobby spend a little on a Veritas, you will use it on virtually every project.

If you spend a tenner on a new poorly made plane you are simply wasting your money. A tenner wouldn't buy you a pint and a pie down my way. At least the pint will give you a little satisfaction and probably last longer than the crappy plane.

David

 

[AJB Temple]

+1 on the Veritas. I have a Clifton as well (not the new ones by Thomas Flinn) but only use the Veritas most of the time. Excellent tool. Mine needed no attention at all apart from a quick edge hone.

I have looked at the Rider stuff and it looks pretty OK to me.

 

[Jelly]

There seems to be a lot of hate for the cheap far eastern planes going on here, but I actually think that CheshireChappie is bang on the money, if you treat them as a "build your own plane kit" they're Excellent Value!

I have two faithfull planes, my experience has been that they're not consistent and are not a tool for someone who wants it to be perfect just out the, but certainly they aren't junk either.

A № 4 which I've moved the frog forwards in for a extremely fine mouth and ground a back bevel on the iron for smoothing awkward woods, it was actually in good nick straight out the box, and required only the iron squaring up (grind was a little off), and a little gentle adjustment with a file to the bearing edge of the cap-iron/chip breaker to work perfectly. I used it extensively on some awkward purpleheart a while back and got glossy, glass smooth results, so clearly capable of fine work.

I also have a № 60½, which as per the OP had poor machining making it hard to get the blade set equally across the whole mouth of the plane, grinding a slant to the iron essentially fixed this to the point that it works just fine, but seems shoddy somehow; I keep meaning to get round to re-machining it, but I acquired a little coffin shaped wooden block-plane from another user here, and then a second one of similar construction with a low angled bed in an ebay joblot, so between the two of them I have almost no need* for the 60½ so it will likely sit there until I'm finally gifted a round-tuit.

Both were vastly cheaper than buying an even half-decent second hand plane, and even if I valued my free-time at the rate my employer charges out for it, the time invested in making them work well would still work out far cheaper than buying a premium brand...

* I use wooden planes normally, and much prefer them.

 

[JonnyW]

My work colleague received a Faithfull boxed tool set for a Christmas present from his wife last year; I asked him to take it in so I could have a look at it, and on first inspection, I thought the no. 4 looked pretty good - although I didn't take the frog out or run it over a piece of wood (sitting at my office desk). Then I had a look at the block plane, and it was worlds apart in terms of quality, machining etc etc. You wouldn't think that the two planes came out the same factory (probably didn't) - wow, what a complete mess.

There was a thread on here a while ago, where a forum member fettled up a Faithful plane (I'm sure it was a Faithfull no. 4) and he thought it performed pretty good. But it is down to the age old debate about spending little and doing lots, or spending lots and doing little. Again a debate that is raged on within the walls of this forum, is the definition of performance and what you want from your tools (just do a basic search).

Personally I love the Lie Nielsen planes, as I have a strange penchant for all things Stanley - especially their Bedrock range. As far as I'm concerned, all Lie Nielsen has done has taken a good idea and made it better. I've never tried the Veritas planes, as I've never liked the look of them - too futuristic looking for me - but that's purely based on aesthetics and my aforementioned penchant!

I agree with the above comments regarding spending a little more if you have it to spend, as you will undoubtedly be buying better quality. Or try to find yourself an old plane. I have quite a few, and they work beautifully - some like the day they left the factory. My favourite plane is my cherished Stanley Bedrock 605 that I bought off eBay - it rolled out the factory sometime around 1920. The thing had been cleaned to death by a previous owner, so it was not lusted over by the display cabinet collectors. I got the thing pretty cheap, and added a Lie Nielsen blade and cap iron. I had to file out the mouth a little due to the blade being a lot thicker and I added a longer Y lever or yoke to the thing (bought for a fiver from Workshop Heaven). And the thing is lovely. I would love to buy a Lie Nielsen no 5 to do a comparison - maybe some day!.

Jonny

 

[mickthetree]

I fettled a faithful and a stanley no.4 along with a couple faithful blue handled chisels. The faithful plane took maybe an hour to get into a descent state, little bit of sole flattening, sharpening, cleaning up. No high end smoothing plane but certainly good enough for general chippy work on softwoods which I'm sure is the market it is aimed at. The Stanley however. Oh dear. Out of square mouth, awful finish to the metal and a buckled sole. Fit only for the bin.
Faithful chisel was descent too. Didnt take long to get a flat mirror back and descent edge. Again aimed squarely at the chippy or home DIYer.

I'm sure half the trouble is we are taking a tool that is aimed at a certain market and trying to get it to perform higher than it was ever designed.

Yes old record and stanleys can perform well but I think that is more by over engineering and smaller, easier to quality check production runs, rather than designing and producing a tool to work to a very high standard.

IMO

 

[user22161]

I can't believe some of the replies here. When I was a furniture retailer, customers used to complain about the smallest fault (could have hanged Anne Robinson) whereas here, several posters clearly accept that items they buy which are "not fit for purposes" are O.K. and they'll spend hours in some cases to make them satisfactory. Accepting of course there are variations in finish and quality between the different makes, if I spend good money on something I expect it to perform as advertised. No wonder some retailers sell junk, they rely on customers fettling to make good.

 

[Penfold]

I have several old Record and Stanley block planes which are great, the only new one I have is the Stanley Sweetheart LA block plane and its every bit as good as any high end block plane. it worked straight from the box and after a quick hone took shavings you could see through and on end grain too.

£61.00
https://www.toolbritannia.co.uk/hand-to ... wwodHH8O7g

 

[Jelly]

I can't believe some of the replies here. When I was a furniture retailer, customers used to complain about the smallest fault (could have hanged Anne Robinson) whereas here, several posters clearly accept that items they buy which are "not fit for purposes" are O.K. and they'll spend hours in some cases to make them satisfactory. Accepting of course there are variations in finish and quality between the different makes, if I spend good money on something I expect it to perform as advertised. No wonder some retailers sell junk, they rely on customers fettling to make good.

I think you've missed my point.... If I buy something for £10-£20, knowing the market rate for one which performs to the standard I expect is more like £100-£200, it would be unreasonable to expect it to be fit for my purpose, just because it's the same item.

Both the planes I received functioned as planes when I got them, the block plane not so well but they worked to a standard I'd say was acceptable for the price point, it's just that I wanted to get better performance for a lower price, and invested time.

It's clear that the performance expectations of forumites are much higher than the average anticipated by the manufacturers of "price-point" tooling...


Personally I'd rather far rather give my money to Philly than LN or Veritas if I had the money to buy planes from the top end of the market; to me metal planes will always be second best.

 

[JonnyW]

I can't believe some of the replies here. When I was a furniture retailer, customers used to complain about the smallest fault (could have hanged Anne Robinson) whereas here, several posters clearly accept that items they buy which are "not fit for purposes" are O.K. and they'll spend hours in some cases to make them satisfactory. Accepting of course there are variations in finish and quality between the different makes, if I spend good money on something I expect it to perform as advertised. No wonder some retailers sell junk, they rely on customers fettling to make good.

I don't think anyone would disagree with you when it comes to spending good money on a tool, you expect the thing to perform. I'd be the first to complain about a quality issue on a new £270 Lie Nielsen no. 4. However on a £19 Faithfull no. 4 - well that's another matter.

As we all know (and has been discussed to death), a decision to buy a tool is based on many things and one of the main reason being financial. Like my colleague's planes, he knew they were cheap, and he knew he would have to deal with the low quality issues - so fair enough to him. It didn't bother him as it served his needs.

However if funds are limited and you have the ability to make a cheap tool that little bit better - simply by spending some of your 'free' time on it - then why not.

Jonny

 

[JonnyW]

I have several old Record and Stanley block planes which are great, the only new one I have is the Stanley Sweetheart LA block plane and its every bit as good as any high end block plane. it worked straight from the box and after a quick hone took shavings you could see through and on end grain too.

£61.00
https://www.toolbritannia.co.uk/hand-to ... wwodHH8O7g

Penfold. Did you have any mouth clearance problems with your low angled Stanley block plane?

I agree, the quality is pretty good - big and heavy - but well enough machined. I have a standard Lie Nielsen block plane, and it feels like a toy compared to the big Stanley.

However mine is a nightmare to set up. I have to move the mouth out to its farthest setting before I can get the blade to protrude enough to take a shaving! I'm considering filing the thing. I would've sent it back, but it was a gift.

I may have missed something in the setting up of the blade department!

Regards

Jonny

 

[G S Haydon]

Kit of parts is a fair way to think about it. £12.00 Silverline #4 I bought was just fine after a modest fettle. For £12.00 it should be anticipated work will be required, £200+ I'd expect it to be pretty much spot on.