Yet another planer thicknesser question...

[Iancd]

I imagine I can hear some of you groaning... not again..?!! Sorry..!

Having read other posts and advice, I'm after a medium size second-hand model. Neither my budget nor workshop will stretch to 2 separate machines.
There are a few available on eBay at the moment:
Several SIPs (01550, 01552)
Scheppach HMS 2000
Woodstar PT85
Record PT260
Axminster ML393
Several Clarke, Fox, etc
..and a few others, including portable models which I'm dismissing (Metabo, Makita, Triton etc)
There's a Sedgwick, too, but it's 3 phase which I wouldn't be able to use as I'm just on an ordinary domestic supply...

I'm a bit concerned about cast iron as my workshop can be very damp at times, but the advice here seems consistent: get cast iron for strength / rigidity and accuracy...
If I do go for cast iron, is there a way of adequately protecting the tables against corrosion...?

I've found a local source of oak 'sleepers' which are a much better grade of oak than I'd expect at the price. I've sawn 6 of them into 4 x 3 and 4 x 2 timbers for a roof and after sanding they've come out a lot better than I'd expected, although they aren't all the same, or a consistent, thickness.
I think this might be a viable and economic source of oak for some of the other work I have to do here, but I'll need to be able to thickness the timber. The 'sleepers' aren't such really - they've never been used, just called that for size: 200mm x 100mm x 2.4m (8"x4" x 8ft), and 220mm x 130mm x 2.6m (9"x5" x 9ft).
So, I'll want to be able to plane and thickness up to 5" / 130mm deep and ideally up to 250mm (or 300mm?) wide...
Of those available just now, I'm guessing the only real contenders are the Record Power and Axminster models... apparently the ML393 is currently sold as the AW128PT and looks impressive...

I'd be glad of your thoughts and advice.
Ian

 

[Monkey Mark]

I can't offer much advice unfortunately. But don't automatically write off a 3 phase machine. If the price is good you can change to a single phase motor without too many problems.

 

[Iancd]

OK, thanks Mark...
I've just realised there are way more machines on eBay... I was just looking at the 50 entries on my first page..!

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I currently have a Startrite SD300 but some years ago had the record PT260 and it was a bonza little trooper of a machine. The changeover from planing to thicknessing made me want to kill people just after but apart from that it performed really well, including with loads of oak and therefore relevant for your task. changing the blades was a bit of a chore but not too bad and they're double sided so you get 2 blades out of one for your money.

I would buy another if circumstances were different.

 

[Iancd]

Thanks Bob
I guess I can get over the cast iron table issue somehow...
There is a Sedgwick 3-phase. I've just asked seller about capacity... If I can get over the 3-phase issue as well, maybe I should go for that...?

 

[Jmac80]

The changeover from planing to thicknessing made me want to kill people just after

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[jonnio]

Hi I wanted to get the sedgwick 10 inch as it comes in single phase, there's no table lifting when doing thicknessing. Its built very accurately and will stay this way. However I went for a Hammer A26 in the end as it has the quick change blades which I need. Just waiting for it to turn up as they take months to get through. It's single or three phase also. They also do a twelve inch.
Good luck

 

[RogerS]

There is no comparison between a Sedgwick (or other similar machines) and the others on your list. A few years ago I was in a similar position although I had two separates (the excellent Axminster 6" planer and excellent Delta thicknesser) I needed larger capacity. I went down to Tewkesbury Saw and looked at the machines they had available on demo and included some of those on your list. All of them had very sloppy fences or fences that really were not firmly fixed and would flex. I was unimpressed.

I also hated lifting tables to go from one mode to another. It always worried me how consistently would those tables come back again into proper alignment.

So I looked elsewhere in their stock and I moved up the scale to the Sedgwick with its rock-solid cast iron fence. A no-brainer. I waited on eBay for a single-phase MB to come up and bought it. never regretted it.

I sold the planer but kept the thicknesser for doing really small stuff but TBH I've not used it for many months and so ought to think about selling it.

 

[Iancd]

Ah, thanks Roger... I was just about to post this when your reply came up.
I've just re-read quite a few threads on here and come to the same conclusion, so I'm leaning toward a Sedgwick... if one comes up that isn't too far away.
I've never used one of these machines, nor seen one used. From the pics I've seen, I wonder how they handle long heavy timber and remain stable (especially the lighter models)..?
Am I right in thinking I'd need some form of additional support for infeed and - particularly - outfeed? Something like a pair of heavy duty roller stands?

 

[Iancd]

In fact, this one's in Lincolnshire...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281762449...1&exe=12742&ext=32470&sojTags=exe=exe,ext=ext
I'm waiting for an answer to find out what capacity it is. Is it possible to tell from the photos?

 

[RogerS]

Coo, that's a low bid at the moment! Mine was palletted down from Scotland on two pallets.

I think the infeed/outfeed tables are slightly shorter than mine (which is an MB). I tapped a couple of 6mm threads into the end of my outfeed table and when I need it have a simple wood extension table and hinged leg with a bit of aluminium angle slotted to go over the two 6mm hex bolts. Very easy to put on/take off. If I need infeed support then I use a simple roller stand.

I think that might be a 12" but not sure.

You need have no worries about your Sedgwick topping over :wink: Not a chance unless you're incredibly ham-fisted which I am sure you are not.

 

[Iancd]

Thanks again, Roger... I'll wait and see how this pans out.
I've just realised it'd have to go in the barn anyway, to be above flood risk..!

 

[Iancd]

I've just bought an old Sedgwick PT255 (10x7)... got it home on a trailer and into the workshop yesterday evening...

I've a few issues to sort before I can try it out but it does seem to be a really good, solid machine in reasonably good condition for its age. From other posts I've been reading here - particularly Nigel Brown's remarkable refurb: https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/sedgwick-pt255-strip-down-and-rebuild-t66864.html - as it has the thicknessing feed lever I guess it probably dates from mid-80s. I'm getting the build date confirmed from Sedgwick, with a handbook which is hopefully arriving tomorrow.

- It's a three-phase machine, so I need to get a phase converter (I'll post separately to ask about that, with the motor details)
- The feed tables are short (as on Nigel Brown's machine). As I want to prepare up to 3m long oak boards and timbers I've rearranged the workshop to accommodate the machine between two doors, so there's enough space either side to work this length of timber. I don't imagine individual roller stands would be stable / rigid enough to support these timbers while planing so I think I'll need something like variable height 'roller tables' at both infeed and outfeed. Does anyone use something like this..? I'm thinking (possibly mistakenly) support at outfeed might be easier to sort out - it's supporting and feeding that length of timber while planing that I'm really wondering about... I've never used one of these machines before..!
- The workshop flooded to half a metre the year we moved here (it's been fortuitous in lots of ways and is why I've even got a workshop - it was the kitchen originally..!!!) so if I'm going to keep it there I need to rig up some form of hoist with pulleys and slings to lift it toward the ceiling if/when that level of flooding threatens to happen again... the alternative is that I move it into a barn when I've fixed the numerous leaks in the roof.
- I need to sort out high volume / low pressure chip extraction and will be digging through the numerous posts on that subject again this week...

So, a fair bit to do before I get round to working with it... but I'm really looking forward to it..!
Ian

 

[Iancd]

Single to 3-phase inverter ordered - should arrive tomorrow.
Found out from Sedgwick it was built in March 1989.

Any recommendations about extending the infeed table? Or is it a bit mad to be planing 3m lengths on this machine..?!!

 

[RogerS]

I don't really worry too much about extending the infeed. IMO the critical areas are the cutter block and outfeed. So I tend to use a roller. However, you do need to be careful getting the height right otherwise you can get a bounce induced in the timber as the wood comes off the roller.

I modified my Sedgwick with this simple table for the outfeed. One for the infeed would be just as easy.

You can see details here part way down.

 

[Iancd]

That outfeed extension looks good Roger.
I haven't used one of these machines before, but as the tables are just under 500mm each I can't see any way of planing / flattening long timber without supporting it off the table at both ends: anything over about 1.2m I imagine would be difficult to feed smoothly and safely. I'm imagining something like a set of 2 or 3 roller stands, fixed together to provide stability. This wouldn't need to be height adjustable at the infeed for planing, but of course it would have to be the correct height, and adjustment would be needed for thicknessing.
I could make something, but it all takes time... and I can't take too much time out from work on the house so I'd be interested if there is something ready made available, which isn't too expensive.

 

[RogerS]

You don;t need 2 or 3 roller stands. One is sufficient. But. A big BUT. Roller stands never stand level/square. The tops tilt. You may find that the height isn't quite right and so as the timber moves towards them, it pushes them over rather than roll over the top. Roller stands have a time and a place but on a planer/thicknesser, I think there are better solutions. My outfeed table is hardly rocket science and very quick to make.

As far as thicknessing goes, I don't bother with supports because you are continually having to adjust them as you alter the thicknesser table. I find that with a bit of practice you can support the material perfectly well by hand as you feed it in and then once it starts to come out the other side, you can walk round and support the timber.

 

[Iancd]

You don;t need 2 or 3 roller stands. One is sufficient. But. A big BUT. Roller stands never stand level/square. The tops tilt. You may find that the height isn't quite right and so as the timber moves towards them, it pushes them over rather than roll over the top. Roller stands have a time and a place but on a planer/thicknesser, I think there are better solutions. My outfeed table is hardly rocket science and very quick to make.

As far as thicknessing goes, I don't bother with supports because you are continually having to adjust them as you alter the thicknesser table. I find that with a bit of practice you can support the material perfectly well by hand as you feed it in and then once it starts to come out the other side, you can walk round and support the timber.

That's helpful re the thicknesser, and looks like sorting support from the planer outfeed should be fairly straightforward. Which leaves the infeed for long / heavy pieces to the planer.
The lack of stability and level / straightness of single roller stands is why I was thinking of some sort of combination of two or three of them rigidly joined together - more like a height-adjustable 'roller table' really.
I'd need to be able to level it by adjusting feet at three or four corners as the workshop floor is very uneven... And in an ideal world the height adjustment would use some sort of geared drive... but that's probably asking too much..! ;-)

 

[RogerS]

Why can't you use the same approach for the infeed as the outfeed?

 

[Iancd]

Hmm... I think you may have a point there..! ;-) Thanks for sticking with this..!